With all the price increases is it worth even going?

[lugnut33]

Even if there is a downturn, Disney will open up AP sales and people will flock to give them $1000 each. Those new AP holders will show up in the parks ready to spend like crazy.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Even if there is a downturn, Disney will open up AP sales and people will flock to give them $1000 each. Those new AP holders will show up in the parks ready to spend like crazy.

It is not likely a recession that will cause sales of new annual passes to resume. That is a theory the bloggers have come up with and that is not what Disney has stated.

Chapek said they had placed a limit on the number of APs distributed. They reached that limit. That limit is designed to make sure the mix of passholders and ticket sales remains in the balance that Disney wants.

In response to a direct question as to when sales of new APs would resume, a Disney spokesperson said right now sales have not resumed because they are focusing on existing passholders. The spokesperson also said the rate of renewal is much higher than expected. So, Disney itself connected the dots that renewals will be the engine that drives resumption (or not) of new APs. When people do not renew, the stock of annual passes eligible to be re-sold (under the cap limit) increases. Disney is currently only willing to sell up to the cap. That stock has not yet been restored to sufficient levels to re-open sales and keep it open for a reasonable period of time.

When McCarthy answered a question about the effect of a recession she talked about the levers they have and one was about "flexibility" in the annual pass system that would provide flexibility to Disney. While that could mean selling more new APs, likely it does not. Why? Because Chapek has already connected the lowering of the parks' crowd levels to a better quality guest experience; as measured by an increased spend rate per guest (lower crowds = per capita guest spend rate rises). By the estimated published numbers, it appears likely that adding a cap on the number of APs sold was instrumental in achieving the lowered attendance caps. (Probably on a one to one basis if the calculations and published numbers are true.) Chapek has said that he will not bend on those caps. Those are non-negotiable. Also, the sale of APs with a renewal feature constitute a longer term commitment to guests entered on discounted admissions. A recession is likely to be a shorter time span than the commitment Disney estimates to the economic life of an annual pass. So, it makes sense not to open the AP sales for new APs until they have enough to keep the sales widow open. This goes against the concept that they will re-open just for a recession. They are likely to use other levers for a recession. One of these could be the afternoon entries that are not counted against the park reservation limits. One could be to add bonus days on block-out days. Of course, Chapek can change his mind, but for what is currently stated, a recession is not the engine that will drive resumption of new AP sales.

 

[peabody58]

One thing that was mentioned is you get (and I think we are starting to see) a slow departure of loyal customers until you come to a tipping point where there is a sudden drop off of these loyal fans from which it will be difficult to recover.

If I might add to this trend, a lot of the loyal 'legacy fan' customers are older individuals. DW and I are now in this crowd (65+). As this demographics continues to age, natural losses due to immobility, fixed income limitations and death will occur at an accelerated rate. Fortunately we drink a lot of the Disney magic which makes us immune to all of these concerns.

Therefore WDW needs to develop a strategy to attract and retain the newer generation of customers.

 

[liquid17]

This thread has been hilarious to read!

FWIW, I'm from Brooklyn and I've spent my whole life in a major city with great museums/shows/food/etc, as well as filth and scary situations and tourist traps. I absolutely go to WDW for the "sanitized version of reality" that someone upthread called it.

This trip is just my husband and me and if it sucks it will be our last trip...for a while, at least...but I am hoping for the best!

 

[aggiedog]

This thread is sooooo off track! LOL

I love Spain because it's like Italy but with better infrastructure (read better trash management) then I discovered Portugal is like Spain, but with even better infrastructure! Agree that Scandanavia is pristine. You can actually eat fish caught out of the river that runs thru downtown Stockholm.

And I'll admit to loving the out of the way spaces in Paris. I avoid the Eiffel tower, Louvre, tourist areas like the plague.

 

[DCLMP]

This thread is sooooo off track! LOL

I love Spain because it's like Italy but with better infrastructure (read better trash management) then I discovered Portugal is like Spain, but with even better infrastructure! Agree that Scandanavia is pristine. You can actually eat fish caught out of the river that runs thru downtown Stockholm.

And I'll admit to loving the out of the way spaces in Paris. I avoid the Eiffel tower, Louvre, tourist areas like the plague.

I just love to travel. I have a whole list of places I want to see starting with Munich next Summer.

The fact that WDW now costs as much as a trip to Europe is what caused the thread to veer off track. If you ask most people if they had 10k to spend on a vacation I bet a theme park vacation wouldn't be the first thing out of their mouth, but it's not hard to spend that much at WDW these days. If you look at the thread "How much is your Disney World vacation going to cost" you'll see some very big numbers.

My favorite vacation is a European cruise which depending on the cruise line can be a lot more affordable and a better experience that a trip to WDW.

 

[slbgnb]

Every time I come back to this thread, I get confused all over again about what to do. Go to Disney in Mar 2023 or cancel everything I booked and rethink our destination. I'll read one post and be like "yes - let's go - we love Disney!!" and then I'll read another and go "Ugh - sounds like it's REALLY gone downhill since our 2016 trip - we must cancel and re-think our 2023 vacay!" I have NO idea what to do!

 

[Brian Noble]

If you look at the thread "How much is your Disney World vacation going to cost" you'll see some very big numbers.

That's true, but I wonder whether or not some of that thread is performative. You don't have to spend that kind of money on a WDW vacation to have a good time. The hard lower bound is admission. There is a lot of flexibility in dining, even limiting yourself to not leaving property, by sticking mostly to CS meals. Granted, I'm not the person who does that, but you can and when money was tighter that's mostly what we did, with maybe two "splurge" meals thrown in during the week. There is even more flexibility in lodging, especially if you are wiling to leave property. Even if you are flying in, I think you can do a week for a family of four for more like $8K without trying too hard and without having to e.g. go during hurricane season.

But, it only goes up from there, and Disney is very very good at convincing us that we must have this or that add-on to have a good time in Orlando. Dessert parties, character meals, tours, line skipping, fancier hotels, the list goes on and on. If you are of a mind to spend money, Disney makes it simple.

I have NO idea what to do!

For what it's worth, we all had a great time on our March '22 trip. We are taking a break from WDW, but that's mostly because we were there for a big trip right before the pandemic (as in: we were there Feb/Mar '20), and then did an extended visit this past spring, so we are ready for other things. But, we are already eyeing Disneyland Paris for May of 24.

If I hadn't been since 2016, I'd definitely give it a spin. A lot has changed, and while some isn't great, a lot is.

 

[Lesverts]

Having just been to Disneyland for the first time a month and a half ago and less than 2 weeks will be finally taking the much delayed return trip to Walt Disney World.

I am so nervous about this trip. I started going to WDW in 2016, so I have only known the FP+ and later situation. But I still had wonderful times. But it feels like all the post-unpleasantness changes are in places that I will notice. Resort costs are like double or more what they were in 2016. Food costs look out-of-this world. All the extras and the LL and everything just to experience the parks in a way that is conducive to my needs (needs that are different to others, so an entirely subjective thing). It makes me nervous that I will think I wasted money, or that I won't have as good of a time because now I do have a baseline to a previous era.

I have this feeling that this will be my last trip to Disney for awhile. I just came back from Finland a bit ago. Notoriously expensive country. I saw 2 NHL games, travelled up and down the country, stayed in some very nice hotels. And it was multiple thousands less than Disney. I think my eyes are a bit more open and I am less afraid of more independent travel. We will see. I hope I have a wonderful time. But, there is a but.

 

[cjlong88]

Every time I come back to this thread, I get confused all over again about what to do. Go to Disney in Mar 2023 or cancel everything I booked and rethink our destination. I'll read one post and be like "yes - let's go - we love Disney!!" and then I'll read another and go "Ugh - sounds like it's REALLY gone downhill since our 2016 trip - we must cancel and re-think our 2023 vacay!" I have NO idea what to do!

I'm learning on these forums that many tend to create this hyperbolic "sunshine and rainbows" or "doom and gloom" picture for the rest of us. It's all good or all bad. Disney is evil or Disney can do no wrong. But I my 10 trips in the last 5 years, the truth for me almost always lands somewhere in the middle, with it more or less leaning towards being more magical than not. My weekend trip this past June was AMAZING. We are visiting next month and can't wait.

The trip will be what you make it. If you have the right mindset and don't make anything "make or break" then I think you'll have a great time. And if you can allow all of the changes at WDW to just be different instead of constantly comparing what was with what is, I also think you can enjoy your time. Those who are most flexible will have the best time on any trip. No matter what you decide, YOU need to feel great about your choices. No one else's opinions should have any bearing on yours when it comes to vacationing at WDW or anywhere else in the world. Good luck deciding!

 

[Jrb1979]

One thing I will say about this thread is I'm amazed by the amount of you who do these high end vacations like Europe.

For my family Disney has become too high priced when you compare it to the vacations we usually take. We do week long trips to Cedar Point in the summer and fall we usually go to Myrtle Beach. When you compare Disney to the price of those trips it's on another level for us.

 

[scrappinginontario]

Thread has been cleaned. To keep the thread open, please stay on topic.

 

[DCLMP]

One thing I will say about this thread is I'm amazed by the amount of you who do these high end vacations like Europe.

For my family Disney has become too high priced when you compare it to the vacations we usually take. We do week long trips to Cedar Point in the summer and fall we usually go to Myrtle Beach. When you compare Disney to the price of those trips it's on another level for us.

Europe doesn't have to be a high end vacation. There are ways to do it on the cheap. Young people do it every summer. The Hampton inn I'm staying at in Munich is 125.00 a night. My 8 night cruise on Royal is 3k. I guess there's way to do Disney for less, but staying offsite has never appealed to me.

 

[LoisLane90786]

Everything has changed so much in the past couple years. Is it even worth going? Seems nothing is as good as it was. Prices are higher than ever before and quality and service is lacking. Why spend a small fortune? Just wondering everyones opinions.

I will always, always go to WDW. I just won't go as frequently as before.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Europe doesn't have to be a high end vacation. There are ways to do it on the cheap. Young people do it every summer.

Young people don't have children. For many (most?) vacations of families of 4+, the most expensive component is the flight. Most American airports don't have cheap flights to Europe.

 

[lugnut33]

Every time I come back to this thread, I get confused all over again about what to do. Go to Disney in Mar 2023 or cancel everything I booked and rethink our destination. I'll read one post and be like "yes - let's go - we love Disney!!" and then I'll read another and go "Ugh - sounds like it's REALLY gone downhill since our 2016 trip - we must cancel and re-think our 2023 vacay!" I have NO idea what to do!

Here is my opinion. Go to Disney and don't worry about the money. You'll have a great time with your family. If you don't want to do all the upfront work then I highly suggest you work with a travel agent, like the ones at Dream Unlimited (I'm not getting paid for that, I've used them through the years and they've been great). You won't pay any more using a travel agent.

 

[DCLMP]

Young people don't have children. For many (most?) vacations of families of 4+, the most expensive component is the flight. Most American airports don't have cheap flights to Europe.

Most people cant afford to go to WDW either...so what's your point?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Most people cant afford to go to WDW either...so what's your point?

Wow.

You argued that there are ways to do a European vacation "cheap." I pointed out that, for families, you can't even get to Europe for cheap. I never said anything about WDW one way or the other, I just pointed out that your comment about Europe is incorrect.

 

[Dulcee]

Europe doesn't have to be a high end vacation. There are ways to do it on the cheap. Young people do it every summer. The Hampton inn I'm staying at in Munich is 125.00 a night. My 8 night cruise on Royal is 3k. I guess there's way to do Disney for less, but staying offsite has never appealed to me.

We'd love to do Europe.... but flights for a family of 5 alone generally rival what we would spend on accommodations and theme park tickets for a week-long Disney trip. We are trying really hard to do a different location from prior vacations for our 2024 trip but airfare makes any trip that involves it pricey for larger families.

 

[notatallmagic]

Interesting question and discussion. I've traveled a ton, and I love a bargain. $19 each way airfare feels like a huge Vegas win to me

With that in mind, there have been many discussions about the key to the "new" Disney reality is lower expectations. In many ways, that's what I liked about being an Annual Passholder (we were for several years; not anymore at Disney - now AP holders at Cedar Point and Universal). With an Annual Pass, you don't have such a FOMO; you know you can come back; you have another day/trip; there will always be a "next time" - and you can accept that. With $200/day tickets plus add-ons, the pressure builds proportionately to experience everything, fit everything in, and "get your money's worth". IMO, that leads to a dramatic decrease in guest satisfaction and the dramatic increases we've seen in poor guess behavior and stress. There's definitely a link there. Add in the extra costs for airport transfers, higher resort costs, increased meal/food costs, Lightning Lane/Genie +, and the stress and pressure build.

Even though we don't have Annual Passes anymore, we still miss the Disney of our memories. We have four trips to Universal booked for 2023, and are looking forward to those and the slower pace and resort amenities. I have very few expectations, simply since I don't know anything much about Universal, and am assuming that we can fully experience the resorts well in the time we have with repeat trips, onsite stays (early hour entry), Passholder Perks, and FREE Express Passes (two trips at their resorts where those passes are included; booked at very nice AP rates).

Do we miss Disney? Absolutely. We have a few tickets we'd purchased that we may use in 2023; but we will do one day trips, likely at Epcot for a festival during a down time weekday when we find $19 airfare ; we still haven't ridden Guardians, so that would be our short list goal. We also took a 48 hour trip this past August when we found great airfare and a nice, last minute low resort rate, and just enjoyed Disney Springs, the boat ride, our resort (Port Orleans Riverside), and the Boardwalk area. It was just enough, with no expectations or theme park crowds.

So to answer - is it worth it? IMO - for many, no. For a once in a lifetime, I want my kids to see Mickey while they believe he is "real" - maybe, but do your best to manage expectations. There are ways to still enjoy the experience on a budget. For those of us with lots of experiences to compare - maybe waiting a bit and seeing how the next year or two settle out would be wise. I work really hard (as many/most do), and I don't like feeling taken advantage of - and that's how Disney has made me feel with the recent "charge more for less" strategy. Until I don't feel that way, I can find other ways to spend my travel budget.