WWYD concerning commercial vehicle parked next door

[TheIncredibles!]

That's unfair. We live fairly close in our neighborhood being just outside a major city and people used to always respect one another. Seems like that is a thing of the past

What is unfair?

 

[mrodgers]

Nope, they can't even fine or have any other recourse. If the HOA had a rule that said commercial vehicles can't be parked in driveways then the HOA could have recourse. However, on public streets they have no say.

I've always understood that HOA neighborhoods are not public roads. does the city/twp plow the HOA neighborhood roads? I don't believe they do here.

 

[nkereina]

My comment doesn't argue with OP having a valid concern, far from it. There's been a lot of comments in the thread speaking to the valid reasons why the person who drives a commercial vehicle as part of their job would want or need to park it at their home. I'm merely pointing out that if needing to park your commercial vehicle is a priority, perhaps selecting a community where that's allowed should be a priority.

Exactly this. We live in an HOA and neighbors are constantly complaining in our Facebook group about the various rules. Its a head scratcher to me because 99% of people who move into an HOA are on notice of this and are aware there are bylaws that have to be adhered to. Its quite simple - if you can't abide by the bylaws, don't move there.

In the OP's case, I'd be more understanding if the neighbor didn't realize the town prohibits it. I don't know my town's laws and ordinances by heart. But if they moved there not realizing the HOA prohibits it as well, that's on them.

In my state, the HOA rules cannot overrule the city laws.

In the OP they state that "Per township ordinance you are not allowed to park a commercial vehicle in a residential district." If this is the case, then the township would have to be the ones to take action if it was reported.

In my state, if the HOA said no commercial vehicles are allowed to park on a street that rule would have to be in accordance with the city laws. In my city they do not have the no commercial vehicles parked on streets law so the HOAs cannot enforce a rule regarding that.

The only way an HOA can enforce the no commercial vehicles parked on the street is if the HOA paid for and maintains the street. There are only two HOA subdivisions in the entire metro area that actually had the streets put in, pave them, plow them, etc. These are the only two HOAs that can enforce that rule.

My former neighborhood's HOA found this out the hard way. They started giving warnings to commercial vehicles parked on the streets, saying they were in violation of the HOA rules. If the owner of the vehicle continued to park they would have the vehicle towed. After they were sued for having vehicles towed, they learned HOA rules couldn't supersede the city laws. This was fun to follow on the community page.

Interesting. What state is this? I live on a private road that is privately maintained by our HOA, and you are correct that we can make and enforce any street parking rules we want to because the town does not maintain our street. If the town maintained our street, it wouldn't be ours to control with our rules. But, we can (and do) have rules regarding commercial vehicles (also commercial signage, etc) being on properties. Our town has no rules against this, but the HOA does and they are enforceable through fines and liens.

I've always understood that HOA neighborhoods are not public roads. does the city/twp plow the HOA neighborhood roads? I don't believe they do here.

It can be either and it differs by HOA. There are 8 streets that comprise my neighborhood and HOA. 7 of these streets are public and maintained by the town, 1 of them is private and the HOA has to budget for street plowing and maintenance of that street.

 

[EACarlson]

Good fences make good neighbors. Great Stuff in the tailpipe quiets noisy exhaust. Just sayin'

So you're advocating vandalizing a commercial vehicle with the possibility of ruining the vehicle? Not what I would call a "good neighbor"

OP, call the Township board and tell them there is a Commercial Vehicle parked on your street. You can probably do this anonymously. Then the correct unit of government can take care of the issue from there.

 

[kdonnel]

I've always understood that HOA neighborhoods are not public roads. does the city/twp plow the HOA neighborhood roads? I don't believe they do here.

That must be dependent on local laws.

In Georgia HOA neighborhoods are public roads unless gated. The roads are maintained by the city/county/state as appropriate.

 

[easyas123]

Our HOA (they built next to our farm, and we bought the two lots on either side of our farm as 'elbow room', so we are also now part of the HOA) has both private and public roads. There are two cul de saks and they are each private roads that the property owners associated with those streets agree to keep maintained, but are all under the umbrella of the HOA. One of the lots we bought is on one of these private roads.

 

[LovesTimone]

For me I would not do anything...

You don't know the circumstances, especially with the crisis with alot of people being out of work, or just scraping by... that might be the only means he has right now to get work and back each day to provide for his family..

If you report them they are going to know it was you... or assume it was you... are you okay with your neighbors having a grudge against you, it could make for long years of being neighbors...

I would ask the HOA to send out a blanket letter reminding people of the parking ordinances, with the monthly news letter/ or just a reminder notice
Our HOA sends out a monthly newsletter, notice's, addressing whatever is going on in our development, maybe this would be possible... ... and would not point the finger at anyone, yet let everyone know what is expected, and the rules...Like the notice that I got yesterday below a different subject, It was vague and pointed at the same time.

Yesterday we got a notice (blanket email) on kids being left to their own devices, ie riding their bikes up and down drive ways, across neighbors yards, skate boarding on and off people front porches, and no kids ( 16 and under) in the pool area or gym or play ground without adult supervision, as well as keeping them out of the last phase of construction... It went on to say while we under stand more people are working from home and kids are distancing learning... and spring break and summer quickly approaching... that parents need to be aware of what their kids are up to, and are responsible for them... that all the rules are in place for the safety and well being of everyone... the end..

Just a suggestion...

 

[NannyBeBe]

We had a battle with our HOA when we first moved in. They started telling residents that they could not park their cars on the street. We had to inform that they cannot forbid parking on a city street. They also tried to tell us that we had to clean up every drop of oil that dripped onto our driveway from our cars. We tried that once but it was very hard to do. We stopped doing it and they never enforced it. HOAs can get really ridiculous. They sent me a notice once that I had a weed -- one weed -- growing up through the middle of my salvia plant. Really? So I went out and pulled out the weed. If I ever move, it will be where there is no HOA.

 

[NotUrsula]

My comment doesn't argue with OP having a valid concern, far from it. There's been a lot of comments in the thread speaking to the valid reasons why the person who drives a commercial vehicle as part of their job would want or need to park it at their home. I'm merely pointing out that if needing to park your commercial vehicle is a priority, perhaps selecting a community where that's allowed should be a priority.

Well, yes, but the thing is, how many of us move house when we change jobs locally, or even when the job itself changes? This kind of thinking puts an unfair burden on blue-collar workers. I work in an office; If I change jobs within my city nothing changes in regard to my home except possibly what time I have to leave in the morning. That's not always so for those who work in the trades; large and/or noisy equipment sometimes comes along with the job, and companies differ a lot on how they expect the equipment to be stored, and who provides it. (My dad was a cabinetmaker/coachmaker; I know this scenario pretty well.)

It's not an unheard-of scenario for someone to be fine with the conditions of an HOA when they move in, but have a life circumstance change a bit and create a conflict. So, let's say you're a plumber, and your company's shop is a mile away from where you buy your house, but 4 years after you buy it, your company gets bought out by another plumbing company, whose shop is 20 miles away on the other side of town, and you have to rotate overnight on-call times. Added to that, this company uses large vans that stock a lot of parts because their service area is much larger, so now, 4 years into your new home, you now have a truck that needs to be taken home 2X/week. Why should you have to uproot your entire family and move somewhere else, or give up a good livelihood, just because of that truck, the temporary custody of which could be eliminated at the boss's whim?

Notice that I used a plumber as an example, because we all need one once in a while, and very often when we need one, we need one NOW. Do you really want your plumbing emergency to have at least 30 minutes added to the response time because the plumber has to first drive to the company shop to pick up the truck? Most people would say no, but that means that *someone* needs to deal with having the truck parked at home for a while. Is it really that much of a hardship if that someone is me?

 

[monsterkitty]

I've always understood that HOA neighborhoods are not public roads. does the city/twp plow the HOA neighborhood roads? I don't believe they do here.

I'm in CO. As I said, there were two HOAs in the front range area that were responsible for all road up-keep, including plowing, paving, etc. There may be a few more now, but they are few and very far between.

The cities/towns/counties are responsible for plowing roads unless the road is on private property, such as a ranch, farm, or a house on several acres.

There is one HOA near me that has is gated and they try to play the "you can't park here, bike here, etc. if you don't live here." However, only one of the streets is gated and the city takes care of all street maintenance. They've been told several times they can't do this.

 

[cabanafrau]

Well, yes, but the thing is, how many of us move house when we change jobs locally, or even when the job itself changes? This kind of thinking puts an unfair burden on blue-collar workers. I work in an office; If I change jobs within my city nothing changes in regard to my home except possibly what time I have to leave in the morning. That's not so for those who work in the trades; large and/or noisy equipment comes along with the job, and companies differ a lot on how they expect the equipment to be stored, and who provides it. (My dad was a cabinetmaker/coachmaker and part-time commercial fisherman; I know this scenario pretty well.)

It's not an unheard-of scenario for someone to be fine with the conditions of an HOA when they move in, but have a life circumstance change a bit and create a conflict. So, let's say you're a plumber, and your company's shop is a mile away from where you buy your house, but 4 years after you buy it, your company gets bought out by another plumbing company, whose shop is 20 miles away on the other side of town, and you have to rotate overnight on-call times. Added to that, this company uses large vans that stock a lot of parts because their service area is much larger, so now, 4 years into your new home, you now have a truck that needs to be taken home 2X/week. Why should you have to uproot your entire family and move somewhere else, or give up a good livelihood, just because of that truck, the temporary custody of which could be eliminated at the boss's whim?

Notice that I used a plumber as an example, because we all need one once in a while, and very often when we need one, we need one NOW. Do you really want your plumbing emergency to have at least 30 minutes added to the response time because the plumber has to first drive to the company shop to pick up the truck? Most people would say no, but that means that *someone* needs to deal with having the truck parked at home for a while.

My dad's site tools were pretty small, only needed for final details, so he didn't need to own a large work truck. He usually fabricated components either at his employer's onsite shop (when I was a kid he actually worked for the Air Force, so he had a workshop on-base), or in his shop at home. We lived in a suburban house on about an acre, and Dad had a shop building behind the house. It was constructed the same as the house was; shingled timber, and about the size of a 3-car garage. The only "unsightly" thing that was normally there was a small crane that he used to move large projects. However, there WAS that time when he showed up with a flatbed truck idling outside, on which sat the fuselage of a B-17 that he had agreed to restore for one of the generals at the base; it was the general's personal plane. As it was too large to fit in the shop, it got parked next to it on a low scaffold -- for about 10 months, if memory serves. (When he first brought it home it was covered with rust. When it left it was absolutely pristine, but there were times in the middle when it wasn't all that pretty, though he kept it covered with tarps when it wasn't being worked on.) Mom didn't love having it there, but she understood that the project had major implications for my Dad's job, so she learned to deal with it.

My point being, it's a work vehicle, not a slag heap.

Daughter of master carpenter here, so not unfamiliar with either blue collar world or the idea of tradespeople using tools of the trade.

Life isn't easy, fair or without the propensity to throw curveballs. That's a potential for anybody, with some having more financial ability possibly to navigate some of them -- including successful blue collar tradespeople.

What about the rights of the people who spent their hard earned money to buy a home in an HOA neighborhood largely because of the protections and guarantees they felt HOA restrictions provided? If OP is forced to put up with the noisy commercial vehicle because restrictions are disregarded, what restrictions is she allowed to disregard in return? If the restriction that she violates impacts another neighbor negatively, what restriction are they allowed to trample over?

Sooner or later a tipping point is reached, the benefits and attached value brought by those HOA covenants and restrictions are completely eroded and overall values in the neighborhood decline. That damages all the property owners.

Or the typical course of HOA spats happens -- a nasty court battle commences and large legal bills are enjoyed by everyone, probably not equally, but there will be plenty to go around for sure.

 

[nkereina]

Well, yes, but the thing is, how many of us move house when we change jobs locally, or even when the job itself changes? This kind of thinking puts an unfair burden on blue-collar workers. I work in an office; If I change jobs within my city nothing changes in regard to my home except possibly what time I have to leave in the morning. That's not always so for those who work in the trades; large and/or noisy equipment sometimes comes along with the job, and companies differ a lot on how they expect the equipment to be stored, and who provides it. (My dad was a cabinetmaker/coachmaker; I know this scenario pretty well.)

It's not an unheard-of scenario for someone to be fine with the conditions of an HOA when they move in, but have a life circumstance change a bit and create a conflict. So, let's say you're a plumber, and your company's shop is a mile away from where you buy your house, but 4 years after you buy it, your company gets bought out by another plumbing company, whose shop is 20 miles away on the other side of town, and you have to rotate overnight on-call times. Added to that, this company uses large vans that stock a lot of parts because their service area is much larger, so now, 4 years into your new home, you now have a truck that needs to be taken home 2X/week. Why should you have to uproot your entire family and move somewhere else, or give up a good livelihood, just because of that truck, the temporary custody of which could be eliminated at the boss's whim?

Notice that I used a plumber as an example, because we all need one once in a while, and very often when we need one, we need one NOW. Do you really want your plumbing emergency to have at least 30 minutes added to the response time because the plumber has to first drive to the company shop to pick up the truck? Most people would say no, but that means that *someone* needs to deal with having the truck parked at home for a while. Is it really that much of a hardship if that someone is me?

Your points are valid, but I would assert that is the risk one takes when they move into an HOA. An HOA has pros and cons, and one of the pros for all residents is that the neighborhood maintains a certain aesthetic which helps to maintain or increase property values. The con of this, of course, is that everyone has to play by the rules in order for that to hold true. If the person in your scenario chooses to move into an HOA to enjoy that benefit, then he or she needs to be prepared to come up with alternatives if they ever find themselves in the parking scenario you describe or in any other scenario that violates the rules. Perhaps parking at a relative's house, leaving it at their employer's lot, or even renting a storage unit are viable options. Violating HOA bylaws would not be. Not only would it tick off residents who intentionally moved there and pay to live there for the benefits of bylaws, but it would also put the HOA board in a precarious position because where would the rule bending stop? They can't do it for Joe and not for Mary. Enforcement has to be all or nothing in order for it to work.

I've lived in an HOA for 9 years now. We recently purchased an RV, and have owned a boat for the last 3 years. I'm not permitted to have either of them on my property. I knew this when we moved in and knew it meant that if I ever wanted those things, I'd have to find alternative solutions. Sure, its an inconvenience and added cost for me, but I'm happy to abide because I would not want our HOA changing this rule allowing people to have these things on our small lots, which was a consideration when deciding to purchase.

 

[tvguy]

That must be dependent on local laws.

In Georgia HOA neighborhoods are public roads unless gated. The roads are maintained by the city/county/state as appropriate.

In California, roads can be either publically or privately owned. Gated communities are private. But some roads that appear to be a public road may be private, HOWEVER they are cleared marked. On the street sign will be a second sign that says "Not a county road". With that sign, people are on notice that normal public parking rules may not apply. One subdivision here actually has a rule that no cars can be parked on the street or in your driveway from 8 pm to 7 am, They have to be parked inside your garage. They have a small parking lot outside the subdivision for commercial vehicles, guests and cars that don't fit in the garage must park overnight

 

[Kellydelly]

Oh no, I didn't realize the discussion had continued because the email alerts didn't keep coming.

To address a few comments, these people are not poor and at the mercy of this guy driving his truck around. The wife also works full time and has a suburban.
This is not an HOA issue at all. The president lives across the street from us (two doors down) and doesn't care. But I do believe he just called the city on us because we just had a large shed delivered and it blocks his view of the bay. (I live at the end of a cul de sac). The shed is legal, by the way and looks like an attractive small garage, not an eyesore whatsoever.

The house next door is way too close, I agree. The truck is probably 20 ft from my window, unfortunately.

I think these people were probably told by the previous owner that there was no HOA rule about trucks, but that doesn't mean the Township doesn't have one! They have lived in this area all their lives.

These people moved in 6 months ago. I didn't realize the truck was "illegal" until I was looking at the ordinance book some more for my own purposes (shed). I really thought they were entitled somehow and I was just going to have to suck it up till I came across the ordinance. The ordinance excludes first responders. A farm equipment repair truck doesn't qualify, I would think?

The truck is a 5.5 ton truck.

I appreciate all of your opinions, even the ones I don't agree with !

 

[mjkacmom]

Well, yes, but the thing is, how many of us move house when we change jobs locally, or even when the job itself changes? This kind of thinking puts an unfair burden on blue-collar workers. I work in an office; If I change jobs within my city nothing changes in regard to my home except possibly what time I have to leave in the morning. That's not always so for those who work in the trades; large and/or noisy equipment sometimes comes along with the job, and companies differ a lot on how they expect the equipment to be stored, and who provides it. (My dad was a cabinetmaker/coachmaker; I know this scenario pretty well.)

It's not an unheard-of scenario for someone to be fine with the conditions of an HOA when they move in, but have a life circumstance change a bit and create a conflict. So, let's say you're a plumber, and your company's shop is a mile away from where you buy your house, but 4 years after you buy it, your company gets bought out by another plumbing company, whose shop is 20 miles away on the other side of town, and you have to rotate overnight on-call times. Added to that, this company uses large vans that stock a lot of parts because their service area is much larger, so now, 4 years into your new home, you now have a truck that needs to be taken home 2X/week. Why should you have to uproot your entire family and move somewhere else, or give up a good livelihood, just because of that truck, the temporary custody of which could be eliminated at the boss's whim?

Notice that I used a plumber as an example, because we all need one once in a while, and very often when we need one, we need one NOW. Do you really want your plumbing emergency to have at least 30 minutes added to the response time because the plumber has to first drive to the company shop to pick up the truck? Most people would say no, but that means that *someone* needs to deal with having the truck parked at home for a while. Is it really that much of a hardship if that someone is me?

Then you are SOL, you put on your big boy pants and find a solution. There is no overnight street parking in my town, it drives me nuts when residents complain, they knew the rules when they moved in. I have a driveway that fits 4 vehicles, we now have 7 drivers. It’s my problem, not my neighbors.

 

[tvguy]

.

I think these people were probably told by the previous owner that there was no HOA rule about trucks, but that doesn't mean the Township doesn't have one! They have lived in this area all their lives.

These people moved in 6 months ago. I didn't realize the truck was "illegal" until I was looking at the ordinance book some more for my own purposes (shed). I really thought they were entitled somehow and I was just going to have to suck it up till I came across the ordinance. The ordinance excludes first responders. A farm equipment repair truck doesn't qualify, I would think?

The truck is a 5.5 ton truck.

I appreciate all of your opinions, even the ones I don't agree with !

Does the ordinance define "commercial" truck. I actually know people who have 5.5 ton trucks to tow a travel trailer with. The State of California requires "commercial" license plates that cost $75 a year extra on any pickup without a shell or camper on it. If it has shell or camper on it it can get non-commerical plates because they consider that a "house car". And you can get a 5.5 ton truck and put a shell or camper on it, and it is considered a non-commercial vehicle by the state.

 

[Kellydelly]

Does the ordinance define "commercial" truck. I actually know people who have 5.5 ton trucks to tow a travel trailer with. The State of California requires "commercial" license plates that cost $75 a year extra on any pickup without a shell or camper on it. If it has shell or camper on it it can get non-commerical plates because they consider that a "house car". And you can get a 5.5 ton truck and put a shell or camper on it, and it is considered a non-commercial vehicle by the state.

"Parking of commercial vehicles over 1 ton shall be prohibited in all Residential Districts, except the restrictions shall not apply to essential public service vehicles. Parking and storage of larger vehicles for farming or lumbering operations is permitted in the AG Districts if the Planning Commission ......

I didn't see commercial vehicle defined in the book of ordinances. I sent you a photo of the beast, lol.

 

[cabanafrau]

Does the ordinance define "commercial" truck. I actually know people who have 5.5 ton trucks to tow a travel trailer with. The State of California requires "commercial" license plates that cost $75 a year extra on any pickup without a shell or camper on it. If it has shell or camper on it it can get non-commerical plates because they consider that a "house car". And you can get a 5.5 ton truck and put a shell or camper on it, and it is considered a non-commercial vehicle by the state.

Poorly written ordinances have been the root cause of expensive legal battles.

I've been in a conversation where attorneys were comparing the vacation properties they bought from earnings arising out of HOA cases, with others chiming in with home renos and other big ticket items for their efforts. This type of litigation is notorious for the legal fees generated.

 

[tvguy]

"Parking of commercial vehicles over 1 ton shall be prohibited in all Residential Districts, except the restrictions shall not apply to essential public service vehicles. Parking and storage of larger vehicles for farming or lumbering operations is permitted in the AG Districts if the Planning Commission ......

I didn't see commercial vehicle defined in the book of ordinances. I sent you a photo of the beast, lol.

I got the photo. I could see where that could be classified as a farm vehicle and be exempt with the huge John Deere sign on it.

 

[cabanafrau]

I got the photo. I could see where that could be classified as a farm vehicle and be exempt with the huge John Deere sign on it.

Doesn't John Deere make riding lawn mowers also? A manufacturer's name alone won't meet the legal requirements. The more pertinent info is probably within the parameters contained in "Parking and storage of larger vehicles for farming or lumbering operations is permitted in the AG Districts if the Planning Commission ...... "
If the truck owner can show they tick the correct boxes laid out in that language, or if they have some kind of sign off from the Planning Commission they may be allowed to park their truck in their driveway.