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Pit-Bull's...friend or foe?

The strength of a dog’s bite is measured in PSI. National Geographic did tests on dogs using a digital bite meter to test their strength. So not actual incidents.

The strength of a dog’s bite is not related to his aggressiveness. If you believe it is then you are contridictibg yourself as a GSD’s bite is slightly stronger than a pit.

You are the one that mentioned bite strength. The pp asked if studies had been done. They have and I posted a link. Then the other pp said something about the Akita’s and I was answering her. I don’t know a thing about Akitas just that one one article they were the strongest and in another they were not.

A chihuahua and dachshund are listed as some of the most aggressive dogs but they don’t have a strong bite. Some that have a very high PSI bite are considered some of the “General giants” (with exceptions of course)
Ok I think I understand what you are saying now, you are talking about when testing a dog's bite, that aggressiveness and PSI aren't necessarily related.

So we are talking about two different things - you're talking about testing and I'm talking about real world bites.

National Geographic isn't the only organization that's tested the strength of dog bites. There have been many who have, as I said in answer to that question. I even mentioned that there could be different results available.

Dr. Ian Dunbar, a veterinary behaviorist, seems to be the most highly referenced now, as he developed the bite scale that I mentioned previously:

bitescale.png


To me, the point wasn't about whose PSI was more, it was that many breeds known for aggression could do a lot of damage in part due to their jaw strength. I think that's been made pretty clear by all the studies. A few points between one group or another in the real world doesn't really mean much, as individual dogs within a certain breed may very well vary from others anyway. The bigger points were that that a) many of the large breeds known to at times be aggressive have very strong jaws (capable of breaking human bones) and b) the pit bull's jaw strength is not the strongest of the bully breeds. I'll add that, however, what the pit bull was bred for does come into play in the style of bite and why they won't easily break their bite. There was mention in one of the articles I posted that there was footage of an anesthetized pit bull still hanging on by his jaw to a pole of some sort that he was suspended from. That is quite unusual in a dog, wouldn't you say?
 
Agreed. I've been texting her and she's saying that the aggression shown could have been the result of the shelter environment, and "aggression can be dealt with" :sad2: I mentioned the lunging/injury concern and she said "I'm not that delicate yet!". I really didn't think she had her heart set on this dog... I never would have expected her to even consider a pit bull.

The volunteer at the shelter mentioned that dogs who have been in the shelter for a while can develop mental health issues and that as soon as they get home they'll be better. This dog has been there since a few days after Christmas. I think my mom is convinced once out of the shelter she'll be fine. It's very frustrating and concerning. I had no idea this thread would become so relevant to my life!!

So my question now is... can aggressive behavior be changed? The dog is 6 years old. We don't know anything about her past, but she was at a county shelter before ending up at this nonprofit shelter.

First off, let me say that I'm not professionally experienced with dog behavior. I have spent the better part of 6 months looking at rescue dogs. What I have learned from that is that what you have been hearing is very much true. I have seen all sorts of behavior at the shelter, have taken three dogs from a shelter, and they definitely behave very differently in a shelter than when you get them home.

Most dogs feel very threatened in a shelter environment. They feel helpless in their shelter crates and it induces a lot of anxiety when people come to stand over their crate, poke their fingers in etc. They also get very bored day in and day out and the barking and fear in the other dogs creates big issues. Alternatively, there was one dog whose "stress" signals were to just sack out and and sleep. People saw a very laid back dog; however, this dog was TOTALLY different once out of there and in a home.

It's very, very hard to ascertain the dog's true behavior in the shelter. That's not to say that this dog won't be problematic but your mother has a point. She's really not going to know until she gets the dog home.

I've had perfectly fine dogs that just did not like other dogs at all. I don't know why. But we just learned that the dog would not be a social, dog-park kind of dog and it was fine. My next door neighbor has a dog that hates other dogs so she just keeps him away and it's fine. It really is going to depend on your mother's living situation and how much she will encounter other dogs. But being at the shelter is not going to give you the dog's true behavior. Some shelters/rescues do behavioral assessments on their dogs that help a bit with that.

I don't know that I can buy that "reactiveness" or aggression can totally be trained out but it can certainly be helped but it's a big time commitment.

As far as the county shelter versus non-profit shelter: what I have found in my area is that our non-profit shelters will pull dogs out of the county shelter if they feel that the dog would make a good pet. They don't take the ones who are clearly problematic. So maybe this shelter saw something redeeming in the dog to pull it. That said, and it's sad to say, in my months at visiting shelters it's rare that someone gave up "the perfect dog." There are generally behavioral issues accounting for why they are there. That doesn't mean that can't be overcome. There are so many poor owners out there that with just a little time they could have worked through some things but people don't want to do that. It's hard.
 
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I know earlier I said that I was not a fan of pit bulls. This weekend, I actually met another one (my stepdaughter's friend had it). The dog was very sweet and gentle. She was very calm and made puppy dog eyes at us the whole time. I am guessing you cannot judge an entire breed by the actions of some of them. I am wondering it if all has to do do with how the dog is raised.
 
Agreed. I've been texting her and she's saying that the aggression shown could have been the result of the shelter environment, and "aggression can be dealt with" :sad2: I mentioned the lunging/injury concern and she said "I'm not that delicate yet!". I really didn't think she had her heart set on this dog... I never would have expected her to even consider a pit bull.

The volunteer at the shelter mentioned that dogs who have been in the shelter for a while can develop mental health issues and that as soon as they get home they'll be better. This dog has been there since a few days after Christmas. I think my mom is convinced once out of the shelter she'll be fine. It's very frustrating and concerning. I had no idea this thread would become so relevant to my life!!

So my question now is... can aggressive behavior be changed? The dog is 6 years old. We don't know anything about her past, but she was at a county shelter before ending up at this nonprofit shelter.
There is such good advice being given here...but it sounds like your mother is bent on getting this particular dog. All you can do is keep providing her with the information. I mean, maybe she's just going with hope...but she won't know until she's in a situation...at least you might be able to help her be prepared.
 
Ok I think I understand what you are saying now, you are talking about when testing a dog's bite, that aggressiveness and PSI aren't necessarily related.

So we are talking about two different things - you're talking about testing and I'm talking about real world bites.

National Geographic isn't the only organization that's tested the strength of dog bites. There have been many who have, as I said in answer to that question. I even mentioned that there could be different results available.

Dr. Ian Dunbar, a veterinary behaviorist, seems to be the most highly referenced now, as he developed the bite scale that I mentioned previously:

bitescale.png


To me, the point wasn't about whose PSI was more, it was that many breeds known for aggression could do a lot of damage in part due to their jaw strength. I think that's been made pretty clear by all the studies. A few points between one group or another in the real world doesn't really mean much, as individual dogs within a certain breed may very well vary from others anyway. The bigger points were that that a) many of the large breeds known to at times be aggressive have very strong jaws (capable of breaking human bones) and b) the pit bull's jaw strength is not the strongest of the bully breeds. I'll add that, however, what the pit bull was bred for does come into play in the style of bite and why they won't easily break their bite. There was mention in one of the articles I posted that there was footage of an anesthetized pit bull still hanging on by his jaw to a pole of some sort that he was suspended from. That is quite unusual in a dog, wouldn't you say?

Lol I would say that is unusual for a dog yes. I would go out on a limb and say it’s unusual for the breed too.

And I don’t disagree with you on the bite strength along with aggressiveness can definitely equal trouble in a dog. The two together is a problem. But they aren’t all aggressive. No more than all GSDs are aggressive although they are listed as such.

You talk about what they were bred for. Pit bulls were bred for baiting in like 1835 or some such. After that they were bred for many of the same qualities as GSDs. And used by the military. Dog fighting became popular again in the 80’s and pits were used. They were chosen because of the same aggressiveness you see in many breeds as well as their other qualities. The dog fighters were bad and taught their dogs to be that way. The dog didn’t start out bad.

Everyone has to choose their family dog based on their family and their wants and needs and on their lifestyle matching the needs of the dog. If they don’t want to spend the time training a dog, then perhaps they need to look at dogs not on any aggressive lists.

But honestly, if all pit bulls were wiped out tomorrow, they would be replaced with the next “bad dog” just like in the past it has been Dobermans, Rottweilers, GSDs, and whatever other dogs.

And my experience with ds’s present dog and the one Mom had as well as many others, is that pits are just like any other dog. You have some that are mean and some that are not. If trained properly, they can be wonderful pets. They love their family and yes, will protect them. As for the “nanny dog” myth, it’s pretty easy to see where it came from. They do “look after” their family. Dozer did it with mom and ds”s dog does it with ds”s family. But they are loving dogs who make wonderful companions.

I wouldn’t adopt a tiny dog that showed aggression. Aggression can just be a fact of almost any dog especially when you do t know the dog’s background.
 
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I wish I could convince her to get a GSD (a dream dog of mine since childhood).

I don't think she takes the shelter aggression seriously. I also worry that the dog may have way too much energy for her. My mom works full-time and lives in a small apartment. As soon as this dog was taken out of her pen and let go into the fenced play area she ran around like crazy (understandably!).. but seeing as though my mom has no yard and I'd be worried about that dog at a dog park... ugh, I know I'm preaching to the choir. At this point I'm just venting.
Wow...it's a recipe for "danger." The dog will need a work out, what's she going to do?
 
The strength of a dog’s bite is measured in PSI. National Geographic did tests on dogs using a digital bite meter to test their strength. So not actual incidents.

The strength of a dog’s bite is not related to his aggressiveness. If you believe it is then you are contridictibg yourself as a GSD’s bite is slightly stronger than a pit.

You are the one that mentioned bite strength. The pp asked if studies had been done. They have and I posted a link. Then the other pp said something about the Akita’s and I was answering her. I don’t know a thing about Akitas just that one one article they were the strongest and in another they were not.

A chihuahua and dachshund are listed as some of the most aggressive dogs but they don’t have a strong bite. Some that have a very high PSI bite are considered some of the “General giants” (with exceptions of course)
I did read the info you provided, it was very informative and I too liked it showed pictures of the breeds. I was surprised by the huge difference between the Pit and the dog with the most aggressive bite, (a breed I never heard of) somewhere in the 700/800 Psi's if I recall, much greater than that of the Pit. And I think the point was just because a dog has a high PSI, doesn't mean it makes it the more aggressive dog, it just means if it is aggressive the bite is going to cause more damage.
 
I only met one Pit Bull that was very docile, and a big pushover but she was a pitbull mix.
I'm terrified of all other pitbulls though (and big dogs in general) so i'm going to say foe.
Too be quite honest, I'm more afraid of the owners at times. I watch to see how they are handling, or not handling their dogs...then I stay far away. There's one dog at camp, it's some type of boxer, very unruly, vicious bark, very strong and the owners do nothing with him. My fellow camper told someone the dog had bitten him. Nothing was reported, not even to the camp owner. Not a good situation.
 
Just copied this from an apartment complex in Florida: Dogs and Cats Allowed: Excluded dog breeds include Akita, Alaskan Malamute, American Bull Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier, American or Bull Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Chinese Shar-Pei, Dalmatian, Doberman Pinscher, Persa Canario, Pit Bull, Rottweiler, Siberian Husky, Stafford Terrier, Chow, German Shepherd and any mix thereof. Letter required by Certified Veterinarian for proof of breed, weight, and required vaccinations.
 
You talk about what they were bred for. Pit bulls were bred for baiting in like 1835 or some such. After that they were bred for many of the same qualities as GSDs. And used by the military. Dog fighting became popular again in the 80’s and pits were used. They were chosen because of the same aggressiveness you see in many breeds as well as their other qualities. The dog fighters were bad and taught their dogs to be that way. The dog didn’t start out bad.
It can be challenging today to find accurate information on the history of the pit bull because the information has become very convoluted. But a dog bred for baiting tells you something about the breed, as it is difficult if not impossible to completely eliminate instinctive characteristics from a breed of dog. (For those who don't know, baiting means that another dog was either chained or thrown into a pit where the most ferociously-bred dog would attack and kill it. This was outlawed in many countries but the practice continued with fervor, and still continues illegally to this day, including here in the U.S.) They were also used legally by butchers to grab onto a bull's nose and not let go so the bull could be overcome and slaughtered, which was too difficult and dangerous a job for humans. There's little question they were bred to be aggressive toward other animals and were primarily used for blood sports.

I think the ASPCA here does a decent job of summing up in their position statement on pit bulls.
https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

And it seems to coincide with what you are saying:

And my experience with ds’s present dog and the one Mom had as well as many others, is that pits are just like any other dog. You have some that are mean and some that are not. If trained properly, they can be wonderful pets. They love their family and yes, will protect them. As for the “nanny dog” myth, it’s pretty easy to see where it came from. They do “look after” their family. Dozer did it with mom and ds”s dog does it with ds”s family. But they are loving dogs who make wonderful companions.
(Although I would feel much better about your DS's dog if he had not had a shock collar used on him, if I'm being truthful.)

As for the military, the pit bull was not, and is not, a dog used all that much. Stubby, the famous WWI dog, was not officially sanctioned by the military, he was smuggled over to France with the Yankee Division (with which my great uncle served in WWI, perhaps he knew him as we come from a long line of dog lovers) and they let him stay. There were some others.

From the U.S. War Dogs Association:

https://www.uswardogs.org/war-dog-history/types-war-dogs/

Breeds Used for Military Working Dogs

Early in World War II, as the Quartermaster Corps began training dogs for the Army’s K-9 Corps, more than thirty breeds were accepted. But later, with more experience, the list was narrowed to five: German Shepherds, Belgian Sheep Dogs, Doberman Pinschers, Farm Collies (short coat) and Giant Schnauzers. Rejected breeds included Great Danes, difficult to train because of their size, and hunting dogs because animal scents occupied their attention. Alaskan Malamutes and Huskies were still trained for Arctic duty as sled dogs.

Standard Breeds of U.S. MWDs Today

The vast majority of U.S. military working dogs in recent times are German and Dutch shepherds and Belgian Malinois, breeds chosen because they are very aggressive, smart, loyal and athletic.

German Shepherd dogs are preferred as the standard breed because of their unique combination of traits. Shepherds are intelligent, dependable, predictable, easily trained, usually moderately aggressive, and can adapt readily to almost any climatic conditions. While many dog breeds exhibit some or most of these traits, the Shepherd more than any other breed, most consistently exhibits all of these traits.


For specialized roles, detector dogs in particular, other breeds are used. Retrievers (Labrador, Golden or Chesapeake Bay) are the preferred breeds for One Odor Detector dogs.

All dogs trained and used by the U.S. military are procured and trained by the 341st Military Working Dog Training Squadron, Lackland AFB, TX.


But honestly, if all pit bulls were wiped out tomorrow, they would be replaced with the next “bad dog” just like in the past it has been Dobermans, Rottweilers, GSDs, and whatever other dogs.
Types have dogs have gotten bad raps when they become popular, especially via Hollywood TV shows and movies, due to over and bad breeding and handling. We've seen it with German Shepherds (Rin Tin Tin), Dalmatians (101 Dalmations), Collies (Lassie), Jack Russell Terriers (Fraser), etc. You almost hate to see an animal become popular on TV because you know it's going to result in a fiasco with the breed. But that's how it goes, unfortunately. Again, buyer beware.

Bottom line for me is, from the ASPCA article:

The reality is that dogs of many breeds can be selectively bred or trained to develop aggressive traits. Therefore the responsible ownership of any dog requires a commitment to proper socialization, humane training and conscientious supervision. Despite our best efforts, there will always be dogs of various breeds that are simply too dangerous to live safely in society. We can effectively address the danger posed by these dogs by supporting the passage and vigorous enforcement of laws that focus, not on breed, but on people’s responsibility for their dogs’ behavior, including measures that hold owners of all breeds accountable for properly housing, supervising and controlling their dogs. Breed neutral “dangerous dog” laws, “leash laws” that prohibit dogs from running loose off their owners’ property, and “anti chaining” laws can control the behavior of individual dogs and individual owners and thereby help reduce the risk of harm to people and other animals.

All dogs, including pit bulls, are individuals. Treating them as such, providing them with the care, training and supervision they require, and judging them by their actions and not by their DNA or their physical appearance is the best way to ensure that dogs and people can continue to share safe and happy lives together.

To that I will add increased awareness, education and resources on spaying and neutering the vast majority of dogs, which would go a long way to decreasing the number of unwanted animals euthanized each year and cut down on some of the over and careless breeding of undesirable traits.
 
Foe for me after three incidents that occurred in the past few months in our area - a toddler was recently killed by the family pet that they had owned for years, my neighbor's dog was mauled taking a walk and my friend's daughter in law was attacked by their family pit bull for no obvious reason. The difference between a dog bite by a German shepherd, Doberman and a pit bull is that the other breeds will bite and move on, however the pit bull doesn't let go and has much stronger jaw power to do so much more damage to a child or another pet.
 
Foe for me after three incidents that occurred in the past few months in our area - a toddler was recently killed by the family pet that they had owned for years, my neighbor's dog was mauled taking a walk and my friend's daughter in law was attacked by their family pit bull for no obvious reason. The difference between a dog bite by a German shepherd, Doberman and a pit bull is that the other breeds will bite and move on, however the pit bull doesn't let go and has much stronger jaw power to do so much more damage to a child or another pet.
It can be challenging today to find accurate information on the history of the pit bull because the information has become very convoluted. But a dog bred for baiting tells you something about the breed, as it is difficult if not impossible to completely eliminate instinctive characteristics from a breed of dog. (For those who don't know, baiting means that another dog was either chained or thrown into a pit where the most ferociously-bred dog would attack and kill it. This was outlawed in many countries but the practice continued with fervor, and still continues illegally to this day, including here in the U.S.) They were also used legally by butchers to grab onto a bull's nose and not let go so the bull could be overcome and slaughtered, which was too difficult and dangerous a job for humans. There's little question they were bred to be aggressive toward other animals and were primarily used for blood sports.

I think the ASPCA here does a decent job of summing up in their position statement on pit bulls.
https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

And it seems to coincide with what you are saying:


(Although I would feel much better about your DS's dog if he had not had a shock collar used on him, if I'm being truthful.)

As for the military, the pit bull was not, and is not, a dog used all that much. Stubby, the famous WWI dog, was not officially sanctioned by the military, he was smuggled over to France with the Yankee Division (with which my great uncle served in WWI, perhaps he knew him as we come from a long line of dog lovers) and they let him stay. There were some others.

From the U.S. War Dogs Association:

https://www.uswardogs.org/war-dog-history/types-war-dogs/

Breeds Used for Military Working Dogs

Early in World War II, as the Quartermaster Corps began training dogs for the Army’s K-9 Corps, more than thirty breeds were accepted. But later, with more experience, the list was narrowed to five: German Shepherds, Belgian Sheep Dogs, Doberman Pinschers, Farm Collies (short coat) and Giant Schnauzers. Rejected breeds included Great Danes, difficult to train because of their size, and hunting dogs because animal scents occupied their attention. Alaskan Malamutes and Huskies were still trained for Arctic duty as sled dogs.

Standard Breeds of U.S. MWDs Today

The vast majority of U.S. military working dogs in recent times are German and Dutch shepherds and Belgian Malinois, breeds chosen because they are very aggressive, smart, loyal and athletic.

German Shepherd dogs are preferred as the standard breed because of their unique combination of traits. Shepherds are intelligent, dependable, predictable, easily trained, usually moderately aggressive, and can adapt readily to almost any climatic conditions. While many dog breeds exhibit some or most of these traits, the Shepherd more than any other breed, most consistently exhibits all of these traits.


For specialized roles, detector dogs in particular, other breeds are used. Retrievers (Labrador, Golden or Chesapeake Bay) are the preferred breeds for One Odor Detector dogs.

All dogs trained and used by the U.S. military are procured and trained by the 341st Military Working Dog Training Squadron, Lackland AFB, TX.



Types have dogs have gotten bad raps when they become popular, especially via Hollywood TV shows and movies, due to over and bad breeding and handling. We've seen it with German Shepherds (Rin Tin Tin), Dalmatians (101 Dalmations), Collies (Lassie), Jack Russell Terriers (Fraser), etc. You almost hate to see an animal become popular on TV because you know it's going to result in a fiasco with the breed. But that's how it goes, unfortunately. Again, buyer beware.

Bottom line for me is, from the ASPCA article:

The reality is that dogs of many breeds can be selectively bred or trained to develop aggressive traits. Therefore the responsible ownership of any dog requires a commitment to proper socialization, humane training and conscientious supervision. Despite our best efforts, there will always be dogs of various breeds that are simply too dangerous to live safely in society. We can effectively address the danger posed by these dogs by supporting the passage and vigorous enforcement of laws that focus, not on breed, but on people’s responsibility for their dogs’ behavior, including measures that hold owners of all breeds accountable for properly housing, supervising and controlling their dogs. Breed neutral “dangerous dog” laws, “leash laws” that prohibit dogs from running loose off their owners’ property, and “anti chaining” laws can control the behavior of individual dogs and individual owners and thereby help reduce the risk of harm to people and other animals.

All dogs, including pit bulls, are individuals. Treating them as such, providing them with the care, training and supervision they require, and judging them by their actions and not by their DNA or their physical appearance is the best way to ensure that dogs and people can continue to share safe and happy lives together.

To that I will add increased awareness, education and resources on spaying and neutering the vast majority of dogs, which would go a long way to decreasing the number of unwanted animals euthanized each year and cut down on some of the over and careless breeding of undesirable traits.
Thank you for this, very informative. Love the advice from the ASPCA. Makes perfect sense.
 
Just copied this from an apartment complex in Florida: Dogs and Cats Allowed: Excluded dog breeds include Akita, Alaskan Malamute, American Bull Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier, American or Bull Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Chinese Shar-Pei, Dalmatian, Doberman Pinscher, Persa Canario, Pit Bull, Rottweiler, Siberian Husky, Stafford Terrier, Chow, German Shepherd and any mix thereof. Letter required by Certified Veterinarian for proof of breed, weight, and required vaccinations.
I can agree with that list for sure!
 
It can be challenging today to find accurate information on the history of the pit bull because the information has become very convoluted. But a dog bred for baiting tells you something about the breed, as it is difficult if not impossible to completely eliminate instinctive characteristics from a breed of dog. (For those who don't know, baiting means that another dog was either chained or thrown into a pit where the most ferociously-bred dog would attack and kill it. This was outlawed in many countries but the practice continued with fervor, and still continues illegally to this day, including here in the U.S.) They were also used legally by butchers to grab onto a bull's nose and not let go so the bull could be overcome and slaughtered, which was too difficult and dangerous a job for humans. There's little question they were bred to be aggressive toward other animals and were primarily used for blood sports.

I think the ASPCA here does a decent job of summing up in their position statement on pit bulls.
https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

And it seems to coincide with what you are saying:


(Although I would feel much better about your DS's dog if he had not had a shock collar used on him, if I'm being truthful.)

As for the military, the pit bull was not, and is not, a dog used all that much. Stubby, the famous WWI dog, was not officially sanctioned by the military, he was smuggled over to France with the Yankee Division (with which my great uncle served in WWI, perhaps he knew him as we come from a long line of dog lovers) and they let him stay. There were some others.

From the U.S. War Dogs Association:

https://www.uswardogs.org/war-dog-history/types-war-dogs/

Breeds Used for Military Working Dogs

Early in World War II, as the Quartermaster Corps began training dogs for the Army’s K-9 Corps, more than thirty breeds were accepted. But later, with more experience, the list was narrowed to five: German Shepherds, Belgian Sheep Dogs, Doberman Pinschers, Farm Collies (short coat) and Giant Schnauzers. Rejected breeds included Great Danes, difficult to train because of their size, and hunting dogs because animal scents occupied their attention. Alaskan Malamutes and Huskies were still trained for Arctic duty as sled dogs.

Standard Breeds of U.S. MWDs Today

The vast majority of U.S. military working dogs in recent times are German and Dutch shepherds and Belgian Malinois, breeds chosen because they are very aggressive, smart, loyal and athletic.

German Shepherd dogs are preferred as the standard breed because of their unique combination of traits. Shepherds are intelligent, dependable, predictable, easily trained, usually moderately aggressive, and can adapt readily to almost any climatic conditions. While many dog breeds exhibit some or most of these traits, the Shepherd more than any other breed, most consistently exhibits all of these traits.


For specialized roles, detector dogs in particular, other breeds are used. Retrievers (Labrador, Golden or Chesapeake Bay) are the preferred breeds for One Odor Detector dogs.

All dogs trained and used by the U.S. military are procured and trained by the 341st Military Working Dog Training Squadron, Lackland AFB, TX.



Types have dogs have gotten bad raps when they become popular, especially via Hollywood TV shows and movies, due to over and bad breeding and handling. We've seen it with German Shepherds (Rin Tin Tin), Dalmatians (101 Dalmations), Collies (Lassie), Jack Russell Terriers (Fraser), etc. You almost hate to see an animal become popular on TV because you know it's going to result in a fiasco with the breed. But that's how it goes, unfortunately. Again, buyer beware.

Bottom line for me is, from the ASPCA article:

The reality is that dogs of many breeds can be selectively bred or trained to develop aggressive traits. Therefore the responsible ownership of any dog requires a commitment to proper socialization, humane training and conscientious supervision. Despite our best efforts, there will always be dogs of various breeds that are simply too dangerous to live safely in society. We can effectively address the danger posed by these dogs by supporting the passage and vigorous enforcement of laws that focus, not on breed, but on people’s responsibility for their dogs’ behavior, including measures that hold owners of all breeds accountable for properly housing, supervising and controlling their dogs. Breed neutral “dangerous dog” laws, “leash laws” that prohibit dogs from running loose off their owners’ property, and “anti chaining” laws can control the behavior of individual dogs and individual owners and thereby help reduce the risk of harm to people and other animals.

All dogs, including pit bulls, are individuals. Treating them as such, providing them with the care, training and supervision they require, and judging them by their actions and not by their DNA or their physical appearance is the best way to ensure that dogs and people can continue to share safe and happy lives together.

To that I will add increased awareness, education and resources on spaying and neutering the vast majority of dogs, which would go a long way to decreasing the number of unwanted animals euthanized each year and cut down on some of the over and careless breeding of undesirable traits.

I so agree with you on the unwanted puppies. So many dogs are unwanted and left to their own resources. Of course they get territorial and aggressive. And more times than not it’s a pit mix or identified as a pit mix.
 
Just copied this from an apartment complex in Florida: Dogs and Cats Allowed: Excluded dog breeds include Akita, Alaskan Malamute, American Bull Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier, American or Bull Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Chinese Shar-Pei, Dalmatian, Doberman Pinscher, Persa Canario, Pit Bull, Rottweiler, Siberian Husky, Stafford Terrier, Chow, German Shepherd and any mix thereof. Letter required by Certified Veterinarian for proof of breed, weight, and required vaccinations.

Yeah, Dd and sil have considered moving to Florida. Because of their dog, they know they have to find a house or apartment that specifically allows larger dogs. Right now they rent a house with their own large yard and the landlord doesn’t care what pets they have.

Ds previously lived in Dallas. His apartment complex specifically advertised as allowing the large breeds. Most everyone in the complex had a pit bull but there were a few others mixed in. He lived there 2 years. Not one dog fight, person attacked or bit or anything but well behaved dogs. They had their own little yard space and the complex had a big dog park in the center.
 
I am going to share an article I came across last night. Specifically thinking of @BrinkofSunshine 's mother.
It talks about severely aggressive dogs, what it's like to live with them, and what tough decisions sometimes have to be made in owning one. Not only the article, but the Comments are heartbreaking. (And I hope it helps someone, somehow.)

It's quite evident that many owners of aggressive dogs are actually responsible, caring owners, but sometimes the dog's past or neurological wiring just isn't right, and the dog becomes very dangerous, not only to kids, friends, family and neighbors, but owners. Keep that bite chart in mind when reading it.

Be warned, it's a sad article. But I think it highlights some of what we've been talking about here without getting into too much gory detail. And all breeds of dogs seem to be fairly well represented in the stories.

I think this is a big societal problem we have, but we have yet to find a solution. I think education is really the way to go. I do feel like we've come a long way in the past few decades to doing a better job of reporting and prosecuting animal abuse, which is at least a good start.

https://www.vin.com/vetzinsight/default.aspx?pId=756&id=5912453
 
I am going to share an article I came across last night. Specifically thinking of @BrinkofSunshine 's mother.
It talks about severely aggressive dogs, what it's like to live with them, and what tough decisions sometimes have to be made in owning one. Not only the article, but the Comments are heartbreaking. (And I hope it helps someone, somehow.)

It's quite evident that many owners of aggressive dogs are actually responsible, caring owners, but sometimes the dog's past or neurological wiring just isn't right, and the dog becomes very dangerous, not only to kids, friends, family and neighbors, but owners. Keep that bite chart in mind when reading it.

Be warned, it's a sad article. But I think it highlights some of what we've been talking about here without getting into too much gory detail. And all breeds of dogs seem to be fairly well represented in the stories.

I think this is a big societal problem we have, but we have yet to find a solution. I think education is really the way to go. I do feel like we've come a long way in the past few decades to doing a better job of reporting and prosecuting animal abuse, which is at least a good start.

https://www.vin.com/vetzinsight/default.aspx?pId=756&id=5912453


Very heart wrenching and interesting article and the comments! So many different breeds of dogs in the different stories. Excellent article!
 

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