Could the reopening be pushed back?

[Cliz155]

As a Floridian... I get it. Cases are UP, in order to close down bars without closing down bars... they can’t serve liquor, as of today. Groups of people just don’t work ... 14 states are quarantining those coming From fla. They are locally saying 1 in 5 is getting Covid. Not that it’s worse case, hospital scenario but an impact none the less. Stressful for All of us
Stay safe!

I thought it was only the NY tristate area quarantining FL travelers? I can't find anything about 14 states. Where did you see this?

 

[mickeymom629]

I included that full sentence that says if these cases continue. I did not misrepresent the person I quoted at all.

but the entire quote came off to me as fear mongering the op, who wanted to know if the park might still be open, and the reply was “I’m so sorry, but Disney won’t open and your vacation is not going to happen”.Every indication from Disney and Florida are that everything is proceeding on schedule.

I felt like the person I quoted was the emperor. with no basis in fact.

I am the person you quoted and it looks like you now have my entire paragraph. I'm not sure how I sounded like an emperor or fear mongering. I didn't say Disney won't be open and I was not definitive. @parasail_of_congress - Thanks for pointing that out.

Back in January, I was someone who posted about the possibility of Disney shutting down and some people on here thought I was nuts. It was just something I thought was a real possibilty from listening to the news of what was happening around the world. It is not something I knew would happen or that I wanted to happen. I still have a trip booked in December that is a modified version of what I have been planning for more than a year and that I will probably end up cancelling. I want Disney to open as much as anyone else and it is very sad (for people and businesses) that people of all ages can NOT understand how (or want) to control their behavior to keep themselves and everyone else safe. All of these months of quarantine and having businesses shut are for nothing if people can't understand that things are not back to normal just because places are open.

 

[heynowirv]

Agree that's the way it should be done. The question is whether every hospital administrator is accurately making the distinction in their reporting numbers. I don't see any problem with questioning and verifying the accuracy. In and of itself, that doesn't reflect an attempt to manipulate the data.

I'm sorry tim like I said it's insurance fraud otherwise

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

Disney is in a tough spot right now. They have a responsibility to both their shareholders and their guests. Guests also have a responsibility to educate themselves and make the best decision for themselves and their family.
I think it's 50/50 if they open July 11 and really don't see them being open long if cases stay at this level or increase further. Just my guess though.

 

[ziravan]

I'm sorry tim like I said it's insurance fraud otherwise

Hospital throughput (moving a patient from ER to their highest level of need through to discharge) in a busy hospital frequently requires downgrading a patient’s status before a bed is available. I would think most systems have the capability to change a patient’s status to “overflow” where they are charged for their actual level of care instead of their current hospital location. That’s a fairly common situation.

For example, an ICU pt is downgraded to Telemetry but there are no Tele beds available. Their status is changed to Tele but they stay in ICU overnight and are billed a Tele rate. No fraud involved. Happens all the time.

 

[Trvlnomad]

Even higher numbers reporting today....

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

Even higher numbers reporting today....

Not good, but it'll likely get worse before it gets better unfortunately.

 

[heynowirv]

Hospital throughput (moving a patient from ER to their highest level of need through to discharge) in a busy hospital frequently requires downgrading a patient’s status before a bed is available. I would think most systems have the capability to change a patient’s status to “overflow” where they are charged for their actual level of care instead of their current hospital location. That’s a fairly common situation.

For example, an ICU pt is downgraded to Telemetry but there are no Tele beds available. Their status is changed to Tele but they stay in ICU overnight and are billed a Tele rate. No fraud involved. Happens all the time.

I understand how tele or stepdown gets full and doesn't have any beds. I'm just not buying that's what's going on in Florida.I still believe from what I have read that these numbers were being skewed to make the numbers look lower.

 

[ziravan]

I understand how tele or stepdown gets full and doesn't have any beds. I'm just not buying that's what's going on in Florida.I still believe from what I have read that these numbers were being skewed to make the numbers look lower.

Hospitals are trying to segregate COVID patients. That’s exactly what’s going on, everywhere. Whether you “buy it” or not. You keep COVID patients in the same place because moving them means more chances of exposure and more PPE use.

1.More staff taking care of pts - receiving and sending staff

2. More positive patients in halls during transfer.

3. More environmental services staff cleaning COVID rooms.

4. and. Most hospitals only have so many negative airflow rooms anyway.

5. The only way to have lower risk areas for non-COVID patients is to segregate higher risk patients together.

I point out that the process to charge for the right level of care doesn’t depend on location, so COVID pts can be billed correctly no matter where they are. That’s not fraud.

There are plenty of reasons why hospitals are trying to keep their COVID pts together. I always find the best rationale in a hospital comes down to this: “How would I want my Momma treated?”

If my Momma was in the hospital for an appendectomy, would I want her nurse to be donning and doffing PPE gear for 3 positive COVID patients in addition to caring for her? Or, would I want the hospital to have a few “COVID units”?

I understand that you’re making an argument that the numbers are being cooked. But your actual argument is that it makes no sense (and might even be fraud) for hospitals to keep COVID pts together and not move them all through the hospital when it can be avoided. I’m saying: that’s exactly what hospitals are doing and it makes perfect sense (and it isn’t fraud).

 

[heynowirv]

Hospitals are trying to segregate COVID patients. That’s exactly what’s going on, everywhere. Whether you “buy it” or not. You keep COVID patients in the same place because moving them means more chances of exposure and more PPE use.

1.More staff taking care of pts - receiving and sending staff

2. More positive patients in halls during transfer.

3. More environmental services staff cleaning COVID rooms.

4. and. Most hospitals only have so many negative airflow rooms anyway.

5. The only way to have lower risk areas for non-COVID patients is to segregate higher risk patients together.

I point out that the process to charge for the right level of care doesn’t depend on location, so COVID pts can be billed correctly no matter where they are. That’s not fraud.

There are plenty of reasons why hospitals are trying to keep their COVID pts together. I always find the best rationale in a hospital comes down to this: “How would I want my Momma treated?”

If my Momma was in the hospital for an appendectomy, would I want her nurse to be donning and doffing PPE year for 3 positive COVID patients in addition to caring for her? Or, would I want the hospital to have a few “COVID units”?

I understand that you’re making an argument the the numbers are being cooked. But your actual argument is that it makes no sense for hospitals to keep COVID pts together and not move them all through the hospital when it can be avoided. I’m saying: that’s exactly what hospitals are doing and it makes perfect sense.

I don't know your background but you seem educated in hospital admin, but as a person with 36 yrs experience in Respiratory Care and working during the first 2 months of this pandemic before I retired I know the critical Care its were treated in the ICU's ,heck we even set up an extra ICU in the PACU and 1 in the OR holding area. At 1 point we had over 70 ventilated suspected or positive cases. We also had a unit on the floors that could handle 45 more non crital suspected /or positive cases.
I don't want to argue this point any longer.I too live by the Golden Rule -Treat other's as you'd have them treat you. In my professional as well as my personal life.

 

[ziravan]

I don't know your background but you seem educated in hospital admin, but as a person with 36 yrs experience in Respiratory Care and working during the first 2 months of this pandemic before I retired I know the critical Care its were treated in the ICU's ,heck we even set up an extra ICU in the PACU and 1 in the OR holding area. At 1 point we had over 70 ventilated suspected or positive cases. We also had a unit on the floors that could handle 45 more non crital suspected /or positive cases.
I don't want to argue this point any longer.I too live by the Golden Rule -Treat other's as you'd have them treat you. In my professional as well as my personal life.

What’s changed in the last few months of COVID care is that the healthcare community has collectively come to see ventilators as a major problem for COVID patients. They’re being proned with high flow O2 for much longer than before and only intubated when absolutely necessary. We’re using far more BiPAPS than vents and that means patients are going to dwell in the same place for a far longer periods of time. In the meantime, we’re probably using a third of the ventilators for the same number of patients because we’re now eeking out every last drop of “contraindicated until it isn’t”.

 

[cedricandsophie]

 

[heynowirv]

What’s changed in the last few months of COVID care is that the healthcare community has collectively come to see ventilators as a major problem for COVID patients. They’re being proned with high flow O2 for much longer than before and only intubated when absolutely necessary. We’re using far more BiPAPS than vents and that means patients are going to dwell in the same place for a far longer periods of time. In the meantime, we’re probably using a third of the ventilators for the same number of patients because we’re now eeking out every last drop of “contraindicated until it isn’t”.

 

[heynowirv]

As I said I've been a Respiratory Therapist for over 36 years I'm not looking for a lecture on respiratory physiology . I understand proning and the lung scaring this disease is causing. How some people survive but never recover. Or the 35 year old who after 14 days has to learn how to walk and eat again.
That was never the conversation. As I said this conversation is over as far
as I'm concerned.

 

[SL6827]

There is just no accounting for the ignorance of some people. That's a real nice lesson that adult was teaching those children. That's a big part of the problem with our world today, people are no longer teaching their children respect for their fellow man...very sad state of affairs. Wish it were different.

Is it possible that the large spikes we are seeing in many areas of the country due to the protesting and riots that have been going on across the country? I know that doesn't solve the problem of whether or not WDW will open as scheduled but it would be nice to put the blame for the spikes at the source. JMHO...

I do believe that could be one of the several reasons we are seeing a spike. No doubt.

 

[SL6827]

I do think the re-opening of the parks could be delayed. I would be surprised if they aren't. But the resorts, I don't know. If they shut the resorts, the DVCs back down, boy that will just make the issues with the points backup and such even worse. But I am also afraid that could be the least of people's worries if this just gets worse and worse.

 

[ziravan]

As I said I've been a Respiratory Therapist for over 36 years I'm not looking for a lecture on respiratory physiology . I understand proning and the lung scaring this disease is causing. How some people survive but never recover. Or the 35 year old who after 14 days has to learn how to walk and eat again.
That was never the conversation. As I said this conversation is over as fast as I'm concerned.

Peace. I wasn’t trying to give you a lecture on respiratory physiology. You said you worked the first few months of the pandemic. I was just pointing out that the care priorities have changed since then. The same physiology applies but the treatment algorithms have changed significantly from the start of the pandemic. It’s in our nature to reach for a vent when people get tired out. We don’t like to see people struggle. We’re now fighting that impulse and getting better outcomes as a result.

And it is on point to the discussion because that change in how COVID patients are being treated absolutely changes how they’re moved through the hospital. We’re keeping them in the same place for far longer. That blurs the line between “critical” care and step down significantly.

Could that be used to fudge numbers? Possibly, maybe probably. But is the patient on their 10th day of BiPAP still a critical care patient? Or a step down patient? It’s not so cut and dried.

 

[jarestel]

Apologies. The desire to see things open up and the virus disappear can lead to some posts of frustration.

To return to the topic, it would be difficult (though not impossible) to envision further delays. Let's face it, it's easier to postpone the announced opening than it would be to open and then have to close all over again. But who knows?

 

[ziravan]

Unfortunately the boards are full of armchair epidemiologists who are analyzing data and presenting cases to fit their personal viewpoints when all most of us want is some factual data to simply determine whether traveling to WDW in the next couple of months is wise or not. I truly wish we could trust our government to present the facts as they are and not how they want them to be, it would make this so much easier.

I’m from Texas with an approximately equal growth pattern of “on the economy” spread as Florida. My calculation is that if I get inside the Disney bubble, even if it it isn’t totally secure, being surrounded by people who had their temps checked that morning is probably safer than any place outside that bubble, here or there.

If it’s open, I’m going.

The real question is the thread thesis, will it be open. I’ve made my decision - now I’m just waiting to see if WDW holds to theirs.

 

[tidefan]

Lost in the numbers in Florida today is that they ran almost 80,000 tests yesterday. Here in Alabama, we have run 300,000 in total since March. While the numbers certainly aren’t good, it does seem like Florida (and maybe New York) have the recommended testing capacity to monitor.