Hypothetical Legal Question-Jambo House

[OKW Lover]

If AKV is one condo association that consists of Kidani and Jambo, which appears to be true with the 11 month home resort rules, then I do think it is why they can keep it closed as long as Kidani is open.

Wouldn't that mean they are still displacing DVC members by artificially reducing the number of available units?

 

[Sandisw]

Wouldn't that mean they are still displacing DVC members by artificially reducing the number of available units?

The POS has a clause about limit of use and that if rooms are unavailable then the Board of the association can allow those guests to use points at other resorts on a more than 1:1 ratio. Meaning more points than units.

So, the question is, given the pandemic, and rules for opening...not that hotels has the same guidelines as parks...does DVCM have the right to force Disney to open AKL for Jambo rooms if they are part of the larger AKV resort, as long as Kidani is open?

I do not think they can and Disney can keep Jambo House closed. Like I said, nothing to stop DVC to only open Congress Park and Paddock at the start and put everyone there, while leaving the rest shut down.

I am not saying they could do this whenever they want...there has to be a valid reason, but I think right now, given the health and safety reasons they were closed to begin with, that may give them a little legal latitude to keep it closed right now,

That goes away, IMO, as soon as Disney opens up other hotels

 

[WilsonFlyer]

What is CL?

 

[Sandisw]

What is CL?

Concierge Level. Disney has suspended that service for all resorts. Cash guests are being changed and receiving refunds, I saw a post of someone as late as December who has already been changed.

 

[chicagoshannon]

What is CL?

club level

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Right now, they can claim that reducing capacity of resort guests fits into the phased opening plan, which is why they didn’t open up their esorts at once.

Like I said, IMO, since it appears Kidani and Jambo are part of one DVC resort, them opening one and not both doesn’t seem to me to be a violation.

For all we know, at SSR or OKW, they may keep some buildings closed and consolidate. I see this as the same thing for this initial phase.

Agree to disagree on principle then. I am entitled to try for CL, value rooms, and proximity to dining amenities and the large feature pool. Don't get me wrong. I love Kidani. Kidani is our home and we actually don't care for the hussle and bussle of JH. We've stayed there a couple of times, but Kidani is home to us, and always will be. Still, I shouldn't be denied the ability to book anything in my deeded interest and that I'm paying dues on.

 

[Sandisw]

Agree to disagree on principle then. I am entitled to try for CL, value rooms, and proximity to dining amenities and the large feature pool. Don't get me wrong. I love Kidani. Kidani is our home and we actually don't care for the hussle and bussle of JH. We've stayed there a couple of times, but Kidani is home to us, and always will be. Still, I shouldn't be denied the ability to book anything in my deeded interest and that I'm paying dues on.

Yes, you are entitled to, as is every other AKV owner at 11 months and all others at 7 months but not when the building is closed.

Agree to disagree that keeping that building closed is against the POS until it becomes open for other guests.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Right now, they can claim that reducing capacity of resort guests fits into the phased opening plan, which is why they didn’t open up their esorts at once.

Like I said, IMO, since it appears Kidani and Jambo are part of one DVC resort, them opening one and not both doesn’t seem to me to be a violation.

For all we know, at SSR or OKW, they may keep some buildings closed and consolidate. I see this as the same thing for this initial phase.

None of that is about safety which is what you stated above. This is 100% economics now. And depending on bookings its likely about Disney resort economics. Not DVC so much.

 

[Sandisw]

None of that is about safety which is what you stated above. This is 100% economics now. And depending on bookings its likely about Disney resort economics. Not DVC so much.

Sorry...I was referring to what would allow them to keep it closed legally without violating the POS during this initial time!

They can use health and safety as the reasoning to support the phased reopening...regardless of whether it is the real reason or not.

 

[dismedvc]

Right now, they can claim that reducing capacity of resort guests fits into the phased opening plan, which is why they didn’t open up their esorts at once.

Like I said, IMO, since it appears Kidani and Jambo are part of one DVC resort, them opening one and not both doesn’t seem to me to be a violation.

For all we know, at SSR or OKW, they may keep some buildings closed and consolidate. I see this as the same thing for this initial phase.

I believe I remember you previously posting that DVC was legally required to open all DVC resorts once the Florida stay at home order was lifted. Currently, there are nights where there is no availability at Kidani, or any other DVC resort, so by keeping Jambo closed, they are keeping members from being able to use their points. That does not seem right, especially if some of those points will expire because a member cannot book a reservation because one of the DVC resorts is "arbitrarily" closed. Not trying to be argumentative, I am just confused on how DVC is allowed to do this.

 

[Sandisw]

I believe I remember you previously posting that DVC was legally required to open all DVC resorts once the Florida stay at home order was lifted. Currently, there are nights where there is no availability at Kidani, or any other DVC resort, so by keeping Jambo closed, they are keeping members from being able to use their points. That does not seem right, especially if some of those points will expire because a member cannot book a reservation because one of the DVC resorts is "arbitrarily" closed. Not trying to be argumentative, I am just confused on how DVC is allowed to do this.

Yes, they are, but again, if Jambo and Kidani are legally one resort, then they have not violated any rule that I can see because AKV, the DVC resort is open, even though the Jambo building is closed.

CL rooms were out because CL is not being offered, so those guests had to be moved regardless.

This is no different than if a room goes down for maintenance and is taken out of service...

So, it then becomes whether they had a legal reason to take those Jambo rooms out of service right now and limit their use.

It does not matter if rooms are still available at Kidani for points, it just matters that those guests get moved somewhere,

So far, we have one report of someone being given another room.

Jambo is a very unique case in that it is inside a WDW hotel, but part of a larger DVC association...at least as far as I can tell and so far, no one who owns AKV has shared it is not, Since owners of both resorts have 11 month priority at both, it tends to support that AKV is one large resort with two buildings.

As I said, CCV is very similar, It is all inside a WDW hotel as well, that is not opening.

However, DVC did not keep those closed, even though it is the exact same set up,

The reason I think they could not is because CCV is its own resort and thus not opening thst would have violated the POS for CCV.

Remember, DVD retains ownership of at least 2% of every resort, so I don’t see that any people who are booked during these initial weeks will not have another DVC room to go to,

Again, this is why I believe it is a legal move,

But, I did say that as soon as they open up AKL, the hotel,to guests, any guests, then I do not think they have a legal reason to support taking those rooms out of service, other than CL.

IMO, that is why I do not see them giving Jambo to a sports team vs, cash guests displaced from the resorts the sports teams go to,

PS,,,didn’t sound argumentative at all!

ETA: Another thing thst supports this for me is that when Disney sells AKV to people, they do not distinguish when advertising they are different,...you only find out where your points are when you get your deed.

 

[dismedvc]

Yes, they are, but again, if Jambo and Kidani is one resort, then they have not violated any rule that I can see because AKV, the DVC resort is open, even though the Jambo building is closed

Thanks. If I understand what you are saying, it seems you are saying DVC could close 2 of the 3 DVC buildings at the Polynesian, and all but 1 of the buildings at SSR, and that would still be legal, as long as they did not allow any other guests to book rooms in the buildings that were closed to DVC bookings. It seems to me if the resort is "open" but some of the buildings are closed, that dramatically reduces the ability of DVC members to use their points.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks. If I understand what you are saying, it seems you are saying DVC could close 2 of the 3 DVC buildings at the Polynesian, and all but 1 of the buildings at SSR, and that would still be legal, as long as they did not allow any other guests to book rooms in the buildings that were closed to DVC bookings. It seems to me if the resort is "open" but some of the buildings are closed, that dramatically reduces the ability of DVC members to use their points.

Poly and SSR would be different because they are independent buildings and not inside the actual hotel.

In those cases, keeping Poly buildings closed has no effect on the DVC buildings.

SSR is all DVC so those all have to be available for use. However, they could very well, in both these cases, choose to cluster everyone into a few buildings and not open them all, until needed

For example, they may decide to keep all preferred in a Congress Park and keep the Springs closed down until CP is full,

Like I said, Jambo is really different because the hotel rooms and the DVC rooms are in the same building.

Let me put it another way...if the Jambo rooms were a small add on to the hotel, and not inside, I think they would have been open.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[RWinNOLA]

Currently, there are nights where there is no availability at Kidani, or any other DVC resort, so by keeping Jambo closed, they are keeping members from being able to use their points.

What timeframe are you looking at? I checked today and there was widespread availability for almost all DVC resorts in July and August, including Kadani. I would assume the same holds true for the rest of the year but I wasn’t looking beyond August.

 

[dismedvc]

What timeframe are you looking at? I checked today and there was widespread availability for almost all DVC resorts in July and August, including Kadani. I would assume the same holds true for the rest of the year but I wasn’t looking beyond August.

I know Thanksgiving week is a special case, but there are no rooms in any category at any WDW DVC resort available for the nights of Nov 24th, Nov 26th, or Nov 27th. (for the night of Nov 25th the only availability is a 1BR at CCV and a 1BR at BWV) If Jambo was open, there would be a few more rooms available for those nights. Even though those Jambo rooms would also probably be fully booked on those dates, at least a few more DVC members could stay on those nights.

 

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Yes, they are, but again, if Jambo and Kidani are legally one resort, then they have not violated any rule that I can see because AKV, the DVC resort is open, even though the Jambo building is closed.

CL rooms were out because CL is not being offered, so those guests had to be moved regardless.

This is no different than if a room goes down for maintenance and is taken out of service...

You've had lots of helpful information here.
Just curious if there is any limit to how long they can take rooms or booking categories out of service. According to the booking website Jambo Value rooms were not available Dec 2019 to early spring 2020 and now with Jambo blocked off it's another 6+ months those value rooms are not available. And now the CL rooms are unavailable for 6+ months. That's two booking categories that are very popular, hard to get and that DVD uses to sell DVC.

 

[Sandisw]

You've had lots of helpful information here.
Just curious if there is any limit to how long they can take rooms or booking categories out of service. According to the booking website Jambo Value rooms were not available Dec 2019 to early spring 2020 and now with Jambo blocked off it's another 6+ months those value rooms are not available. And now the CL rooms are unavailable for 6+ months. That's two booking categories that are very popular, hard to get and that DVD uses to sell DVC.

It all depends on the reason. Value was taken out of service because of construction to hotel rooms and access wasn’t available. Actually, what is happening right now with it being closed is pretty much the same thing, DVC lost rooms because the hotel renovations forced those rooms out of service because the floor was closed.

The loss of rooms that disappeared for months seem to be from Disney using their points to book them. While we do not know this for sure, the way it went in like hours, leads me to believe those were booked by Disney for cash guests.

Disney can pull all DVC 60 days or less for breakage and use all points they own to book resorts within 7 months..and actually could do it ahead of members.

So, if the lack of availability we see is from Disney simply booking them first, they would not be considered out of service,

Out of service means no one can stay in them...which is what is happening currently and what happened last year.

We will have a better idea when AKL opens to guests. If any DVC member who has booked Jambo...say in September for example..is asked to move while others are staying there, then I do think it could be a violation of the POS.

As I said, other than CL, As long as Disney has closed CL services resort wide, those rooms can not be booked and used.

 

[SpoonfulofSugar]

It all depends on the reason. Value was taken out of service because of construction to hotel rooms and access wasn’t available. Actually, what is happening right now with it being closed is pretty much the same thing, DVC lost rooms because the hotel renovations forced those rooms out of service because the floor was closed.

The loss of rooms that disappeared for months seem to be from Disney using their points to book them. While we do not know this for sure, the way it went in like hours, leads me to believe those were booked by Disney for cash guests.

Disney can pull all DVC 60 days or less for breakage and use all points they own to book resorts within 7 months..and actually could do it ahead of members.

So, if the lack of availability we see is from Disney simply booking them first, they would not be considered out of service,

Out of service means no one can stay in them...which is what is happening currently and what happened last year.

We will have a better idea when AKL opens to guests. If any DVC member who has booked Jambo...say in September for example..is asked to move while others are staying there, then I do think it could be a violation of the POS.

As I said, other than CL, As long as Disney has closed CL services resort wide, those rooms can not be booked and used.

It is all very interesting and a little confusing lol
We have a Jambo CL room booked for 5 nights before the parks open and no contact from DVC yet. I don't know if they will cancel or move it. I feel like the value rooms get a little upgrade with the move to Kidani but what can they offer CL ressies beside the same room and a refund of points. Just so much waiting for more information and communication from DVC, it's exhausting and a little disappointing.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Yes, they are, but again, if Jambo and Kidani are legally one resort, then they have not violated any rule that I can see because AKV, the DVC resort is open, even though the Jambo building is closed.

CL rooms were out because CL is not being offered, so those guests had to be moved regardless.

This is no different than if a room goes down for maintenance and is taken out of service...

So, it then becomes whether they had a legal reason to take those Jambo rooms out of service right now and limit their use.

It does not matter if rooms are still available at Kidani for points, it just matters that those guests get moved somewhere,

So far, we have one report of someone being given another room.

Jambo is a very unique case in that it is inside a WDW hotel, but part of a larger DVC association...at least as far as I can tell and so far, no one who owns AKV has shared it is not, Since owners of both resorts have 11 month priority at both, it tends to support that AKV is one large resort with two buildings.

As I said, CCV is very similar, It is all inside a WDW hotel as well, that is not opening.

However, DVC did not keep those closed, even though it is the exact same set up,

The reason I think they could not is because CCV is its own resort and thus not opening thst would have violated the POS for CCV.

Remember, DVD retains ownership of at least 2% of every resort, so I don’t see that any people who are booked during these initial weeks will not have another DVC room to go to,

Again, this is why I believe it is a legal move,

But, I did say that as soon as they open up AKL, the hotel,to guests, any guests, then I do not think they have a legal reason to support taking those rooms out of service, other than CL.

IMO, that is why I do not see them giving Jambo to a sports team vs, cash guests displaced from the resorts the sports teams go to,

PS,,,didn’t sound argumentative at all!

ETA: Another thing thst supports this for me is that when Disney sells AKV to people, they do not distinguish when advertising they are different,...you only find out where your points are when you get your deed.

I feel that you’re periodically intermixing a couple of senarios in all this. All the units in both Kidani and Jambo make up AKV exactly the same as all SSR buildings make up the SSR Resort, all OKW buildings make up OKW and so on. In that regard the AKL hotel has absolutely zero bearing. Once the units are all declared into the association they are all open for use. Points are sold based on all the units and per the POS only way to take out o service is if a unit is destroyed or for maintenance. If it happens to be true that all of Kidani is full then I do not see how they can legally have Jambo closed or they have to have used their own points to reserve the exact number of Jambo rooms.

In the other scenario where Kidani is not full and all those booked at Jambo would fit in there then maybe they could make that move just as they could not elect not to use all buildings at SSR or PVB if there isn’t demand. And in those cases DVC wouldn’t even have to book the rooms themselves.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I don’t see the need to move people that were originally staying CL at Jambo.
The rooms are identical to non CL rooms.
Let them use the rooms without the CL offerings.