Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[eticketplease]

The dues at Poly2 will probably be quite a bit lower not just because of the building but also because you are going to pay a lot more points per night.

I’m not sure the number of points required per stay really factors into it but I could be wrong. I’m just thinking BLT/VGF/SSR. Those 2 monorail resorts have been historically on the lower end with SSR not that much more. SSR just now went over $8 a point. The amount of points for a SSR stay is lower than BLT or VGF.

I thought it was more based on the # of points sold at the resort with the second largest Aulani being the exception for insurance.

 

[eticketplease]

If I remember my last direct sales presentation correctly, they do show the current annual dues quite prominently, so they must still feel that that this combination of points per night vs dues at CFW is the best sales proposition for most customers (even if it does not appear attractive to us).

From what you remember I assuming they only showed dues for actively selling properties?

 

[kilik64]

I’m not sure the number of points required per stay really factors into it but I could be wrong. I’m just thinking BLT/VGF/SSR. Those 2 monorail resorts have been historically on the lower end with SSR not that much more. SSR just now went over $8 a point. The amount of points for a SSR stay is lower than BLT or VGF.

I thought it was more based on the # of points sold at the resort with the second largest Aulani being the exception for insurance.

It all depends, its kinda a balance.

Like with the cabins, if they were priced a little higher per night vs what they are, once you factor that over a whole year the total amount of points for the resort could go up substantially, lets says like 250k. Now if the resort is based on (random number) 1.5m points vs 1.75m total points, then the dues would be lower per point since there are more total points.

Why I said earlier its on one hand good that the cabins are cheaper relatively to stay vs 1br and some studios, but what that also does is mean less total points of all the costs to be spread over, hence higher dues. So its quite possible had they priced the cabins higher to stay in, dues would have been lower, but then you'd need more points as well so in the end it could be kinda a wash I guess?

Did I just backdoor into saying that the dues are not bad given the lower price per point to stay there...?

 

[kilik64]

Week in September 2024 cost

SSR std 1br - $1294.26 (8.14*159 points)

Cabin - $1348.65 (12.15*111 points)

So roughly the same price as a standard SSR 1br, but can sleep one more person.

 

[kilik64]

Oh yea, on the other hand if you have CFW points, you are probably gonna wanna use them there only, imagine paying 12.15 per point to stay at SSR like my example above, that shoots that up to $1931.85.

Yikes.

That point chart is doing lots of work at CFW.

 

[walt34]

I’m not sure the number of points required per stay really factors into it but I could be wrong. I’m just thinking BLT/VGF/SSR. Those 2 monorail resorts have been historically on the lower end with SSR not that much more. SSR just now went over $8 a point. The amount of points for a SSR stay is lower than BLT or VGF.

Some costs are resort specific, transportation is the obvious example, but also maintenance and insurance, and it makes a big difference with which other resorts some of these costs (transportation) are shared with.

Other costs correlate more closely with # rooms and nights (cleaning, reception, bell desk...).

As we are paying dues per point, the higher the points required are, the higher is the overall number of points, all of the costs are divided by.

If everything else stays the same (overall costs, number of rooms, etc), if the resort is more expensive in points per night, dues per point must be lower.

So it has to be a factor, but not necessarily the biggest.

 

[walt34]

From what you remember I assuming they only showed dues for actively selling properties?

Only of the two resorts they were trying to sell to me.

 

[AwfulWaffle]

imagine paying 12.15 per point to stay at SSR

And that’s just the initial ppp. Ask VDH owners how they felt about that increase in year two. This could easily take Vero by year three and it’s restricted. 80 a points in 3 years at the board sponsor. I’ll buy them….maybe

 

[tx911]

I don’t think so.

The email I received stated “Membership requires purchasing a deeded ownership interest at The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort that will expire on January 31, 2075, and that typically ranges in price from $22,700 to $60,100 (subject to change).”

So that would be $227 a point at the minimum buy in of 100 points.

What if the $22,700 is for 150 points? Unrealistic probably.

If you are an existing member, will you be able to buy in much smaller increments, eg 25 or 50 points?

 

[West_Coast_DVC_Fam]

What if the $22,700 is for 150 points? Unrealistic probably.

If you are an existing member, will you be able to buy in much smaller increments, eg 25 or 50 points?

Maybe you are on to something. The Disneyland Tower e-mail said: Membership in The Villas at Disneyland® Hotel requires purchasing a deeded ownership that could expire as early as January 31, 2074, and that typically ranges in price from $34,100 to $60,100. Was that before the 100 point minimum buy in?

 

[Sandisw]

I’m not sure the number of points required per stay really factors into it but I could be wrong. I’m just thinking BLT/VGF/SSR. Those 2 monorail resorts have been historically on the lower end with SSR not that much more. SSR just now went over $8 a point. The amount of points for a SSR stay is lower than BLT or VGF.

I thought it was more based on the # of points sold at the resort with the second largest Aulani being the exception for insurance.

It’s the total points for a resort that would impact the dues. So, in a sense, the more points per night, the more points the resort has to divide the operators by

So, if they had made the points chart for the cabins higher, the dues would be less because they would have more points at the resort.

 

[eticketplease]

Maybe you are on to something. The Disneyland Tower e-mail said: Membership in The Villas at Disneyland® Hotel requires purchasing a deeded ownership that could expire as early as January 31, 2074, and that typically ranges in price from $34,100 to $60,100. Was that before the 100 point minimum buy in?

100 minimum was before it went on sale. (I reported it here) I think you and @tx911 bring up some interesting points.

I received the save email on 3/9/23 It does not state when sales where to begin but they had not started when I posted the new minimum buy in.

$34,100 / 150 is just over $227 a point. VDH ended up opening up at $230 a point.
It is possible that points are just over $151 a point for 150?
It's possible that the direct points are staying in the $225-230 range and then lots of incentives.
I can't see that happen but it is certainly a way to introduce folks to DVC.

 

[tx911]

100 minimum was before it went on sale. (I reported it here) I think you and @tx911 bring up some interesting points.

I received the save email on 3/9/23 It does not state when sales where to begin but they had not started when I posted the new minimum buy in.

$34,100 / 150 is just over $227 a point. VDH ended up opening up at $230 a point.
It is possible that points are just over $151 a point for 150?
It's possible that the direct points are staying in the $225-230 range and then lots of incentives.
I can't see that happen but it is certainly a way to introduce folks to DVC.

$151/point would be awfully tempting...

 

[eticketplease]

Week in September 2024 cost

SSR std 1br - $1294.26 (8.14*159 points)

Cabin - $1348.65 (12.15*111 points)

So roughly the same price as a standard SSR 1br, but can sleep one more person.

I'm not exactly sure where you were going with this. Are you implying the price of dues is based on the accommodation? To me this is what it would cost to stay in the accommodations if one paid cash for the contract or if they had financed it, paid it off. I might just be over thinking this lol

It’s the total points for a resort that would impact the dues. So, in a sense, the more points per night, the more points the resort has to divide the operators by

So, if they had made the points chart for the cabins higher, the dues would be less because they would have more points at the resort.

Again that is where I thought it the number of points for sale at a resort played the biggest factor and then the type of construction.
That is what I thought I was curious why VGF and BLT are always close to SSR.

VGF is approx 25% of the size of SSR and BLT a little larger at about 33% of total points.
These resorts have higher points charts and sold a lower amount of points yet the dues are very close with both the monorail resorts being cheaper.
The only other factor I can think of is that VGF & BLT are towers type accomodations and do not multiple buildings to deal with (yes VGF now has another 1 but it is still only 2)



BTW tried to just copy and paste from excel but the data ended up moved in the columns.

I will never understand this and just pay my dues when the bill comes in December lol.

 

[DonMacGregor]

The dues definitely reflect, in at least some small part, the type of construction and maintenance thereof.

For simplicity, let’s assume VDH has 10 floors, and 30 studio units per floor, for 300 total units. Let’s also assume there are 300 CFW cabins.

At our hypothetical VDH, only the 10th floor has a roof over it, so technically, only 30 units have a roof, but the cost of roof maintenance is allocated over 300 units, so each unit only supports 1/300th of the roof maintenance cost. At CFW, EVERY unit has its own dedicated roof, plus each roof is below a tree canopy and also subject to severe wind and rain events. The roof at VDH is likely an EPDM or sone other rubberized membrane enjoying a much milder Anaheim climate. It looks like the cabins will either have a shingle-style roof or standing metal seam (hopefully the latter).

The same can be said for the vertical building envelope. Even if, in our hypothetical, we give all of those VDH studios a balcony and sliding glass door, each unit still only has maybe 100 square feet of exterior wall space, a significant amount of which is the SGD. The cabins have four exposed walls, somewhere around 600 or so square feet, and multiple openings on multiple elevations.

Definitely something to consider, in addition to the smaller number of points to be sold.

 

[lowlight]

The dues definitely reflect, in at least some small part, the type of construction and maintenance thereof.

For simplicity, let’s assume VDH has 10 floors, and 30 studio units per floor, for 300 total units. Let’s also assume there are 300 CFW cabins.

At our hypothetical VDH, only the 10th floor has a roof over it, so technically, only 30 units have a roof, but the cost of roof maintenance is allocated over 300 units, so each unit only supports 1/300th of the roof maintenance cost. At CFW, EVERY unit has its own dedicated roof, plus each roof is below a tree canopy and also subject to severe wind and rain events. The roof at VDH is likely an EPDM or sone other rubberized membrane enjoying a much milder Anaheim climate. It looks like the cabins will either have a shingle-style roof or standing metal seam (hopefully the latter).

The same can be said for the vertical building envelope. Even if, in our hypothetical, we give all of those VDH studios a balcony and sliding glass door, each unit still only has maybe 100 square feet of exterior wall space, a significant amount of which is the SGD. The cabins have four exposed walls, somewhere around 600 or so square feet, and multiple openings on multiple elevations.

Definitely something to consider, in addition to the smaller number of points to be sold.

I feel like putting ice and water and shingles on a cabin is probably an exponentially easier and cheaper job than redoing a 15+ floor tower roof. One is a ladder and hammer job and the other is a specialized crew and equipment.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I feel like putting ice and water and shingles on a cabin is probably an exponentially easier and cheaper job than redoing a 15+ floor tower roof. One is a ladder and hammer job and the other is a specialized crew and equipment.

By square, it is not much different. EPDM is +/- $11 per Sf. Commercial-grade shingle is gonna run somewhere around $8.50 installed. But if you have 30,000 Sf of EPDM, and 125,000 Sf of shingle, it starts to add up. Repairs To rubberized roofing are pretty easy, and the stuff lasts forever (50 years versus 25 for shingle). I guarantee you the roof on the new Poly tower will far outlast the new cabins.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not exactly sure where you were going with this. Are you implying the price of dues is based on the accommodation? To me this is what it would cost to stay in the accommodations if one paid cash for the contract or if they had financed it, paid it off. I might just be over thinking this lol


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Again that is where I thought it the number of points for sale at a resort played the biggest factor and then the type of construction.
That is what I thought I was curious why VGF and BLT are always close to SSR.

VGF is approx 25% of the size of SSR and BLT a little larger at about 33% of total points.
These resorts have higher points charts and sold a lower amount of points yet the dues are very close with both the monorail resorts being cheaper.
The only other factor I can think of is that VGF & BLT are towers type accomodations and do not multiple buildings to deal with (yes VGF now has another 1 but it is still only 2)

View attachment 826628

BTW tried to just copy and paste from excel but the data ended up moved in the columns.

I will never understand this and just pay my dues when the bill comes in December lol.

The cost to maintain a resort will be the same regardless of the points assigned each night. That is true.

But if the resort has a higher point charts its dues will be lower per point if that same resort did not.

Take VGF. It has arojnd 4 million points. That was based on the higher point chart. However, if that resort had only 3 million points…meaning they nightly rate had been less…the current dues would be higher.

You can’t compare resort to resort because the e cost to operate SSR is going to be more than VGF…but, if SSR has VGFs point charts, SSR owners would pay less per point.

 

[eticketplease]

The cost to maintain a resort will be the same regardless of the points assigned each night. That is true.

But if the resort has a higher point charts its dues will be lower per point if that same resort did not.

Take VGF. It has arojnd 4 million points. That was based on the higher point chart. However, if that resort had only 3 million points…meaning they nightly rate had been less…the current dues would be higher.

You can’t compare resort to resort because the e cost to operate SSR is going to be more than VGF…but, if SSR has VGFs point charts, SSR owners would pay less per point.

I am not comparing the resorts. Really using the three to find any sort of equation that explains why SSR is so close to the 2 monorail resorts.

In your statement that if it costs more points per night than the dues would be lower.

In that example wouldn’t Riviera be less expensive then pretty much the lowest dues per point out there?

After all its point charts are pretty neck and neck with VGF and only Poly Studios are more points than those two. (Not counting VGF TP)
It’s not and is middle of the pack costing less than BCV, BRV, OKW but more than SSR, BLT and VGF

Sorry just trying to get some clarity.

 

[Jlo85]

High dues somewhat support my speculation that the whole reason for setting up a trust was to keep the Cabins from being classified as Real Property. If they were, the dues would be even higher due to the property taxes.