If resorts closed, will DVC rental companies and Hotwire refund your money?

[_auroraborealis_]

Renting is beneficial for the owners who choose to rent their points out just as it is for the renters. You (as in general you, owners) are not renting out points to do renters a favour. Weird to view it as such. It’s a mutually beneficial transaction, renters get cheaper accommodations and owners get to cover their dues and make a bit of money, and find more flexibility with their vacations.

Unless I’ve been doing it all wrong and someone out there is renting out their points and not charging for it? Point me in the direction of those owners, please.

By definition, if they're not charging, it's not a rental it's a gift.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

By definition, if they're not charging, it's not a rental it's a gift.

Hah, very true!

 

[lanejudy]

I'm honestly really confused with all these responses. ...
I don't understand why people responding to me are saying the owner is within their right not to refund.

I think some folks may have you confused with a prior poster, who seems to have stopped posting. It gets confusing in large threads with multiple people chiming in.

 

[Bearval]

It is definitely a mess. There is language that seems to waive liability for changes in operations but that, I believe, was to protect from a renter suggesting they were entitled to a refund if the pool is closed, etc.

It Is just a turn of events that adds another layer and ultimately, it will come down to what happens in terms of renters seeking to say the contract is null and void.

Many renters and owners..myself included who has a contract with the broker to rent a reservation with points to someone in August...when reading that, if they are honest, never gave a thought to that being enforceable if the resort was actually closed and no check in can happen.

Owners contract says the held back funds is released at check in. So, if there is no check in, and there can’t be with a resort closed, is the owner entitled to that? I don’t know.

All I know, is I feel bad for everyone involved, I imagine going forward this specific situation will make its way into contracts so it is clear from the start what remedies will Happen.

Pretty sure the companies are going to require renters purchase insurance.

 

[georgina]

Pretty sure the companies are going to require renters purchase insurance.

As Mindy S pointed out on the previous page, some of us have insurance that does not cover pandemics. I am still hoping to use my May 15 DVC rental. If Disney cancels and the owner is able to rebook something for me, great. I am resigned to lose my money if not though.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

... as an owner who plunked down multi thousands of dollars to buy DVC and pay my maintenance fees ever year it is hard for me to feel sorry for David’s or any renter. Because of renters as yourself who do this multiple times/or every year to get a cheaper accommodation without outlaying any extra money you simultaneously make it harder for us owners who did put out the money to even get reservations at our home resorts.

Why do you blane the rental companies and the renters, but not also the owners who choose to rent out? And why not also blame Disney, since they're the ones who allow it and the only ones who could stop the practice?

I agree that it probably would be a good idea to disallow the rental of points, because of potential catastrophes like this. And I see why owners would not want other owners renting out their points, too.

Ultimately, only Disney can put a stop to that, though. I doubt they will, as the ability to rent points is probably a selling point for many prospective DVC buyers.

 

[Sandisw]

Why do you blane the rental companies and the renters, but not also the owners who choose to rent out? And why not also blame Disney, since they're the ones who allow it and the only ones who could stop the practice?

I agree that it probably would be a good idea to disallow the rental of points, because of potential catastrophes like this. And I see why owners would not want other owners renting out their points, too.

Ultimately, only Disney can put a stop to that, though. I doubt they will, as the ability to rent points is probably a selling point for many prospective DVC buyers.

Allowing guests and renters to stay on our points is part of the DVC contract. The only exception is commercial rentals and DVC looks at memberships and I’d they see too many reservations in others names, they look closer.

I have no problem whatsoever with an owner choosing to book a room and allow someone else to stay in it. They spend a good deal of money to buy the contract and they have every right to that room, no more than any other owner,

This entire situation is because no one, owners, rentals, or brokers really thought about the fact that a resort closure of this nature would ever happen.

So, there really is no one to blame and all just have to try to work out the best they can.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

So, there really is no one to blame and all just have to try to work out the best they can.

I don't blame anyone. I was responding to the PP, who expressed anger towards renters & the DVC agencies because the PP feels that renting points makes units harder to get. So I pointed out that owners & Disney were equally to blame for the fact that points get rented.

This situation is going to scare a lot of people away from point rental, and rightly so. Insurance doesn't cover pandemics, so no one is going to want to risk losing their vacation money, now that they know that it's actually possible that Disney will completely close their resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't blame anyone. I was responding to the PP, who expressed anger towards renters & the DVC agencies because the PP feels that renting points makes units harder to get. So I pointed out that owners & Disney were equally to blame for the fact that points get rented.

This situation is going to scare a lot of people away from point rental, and rightly so. Insurance doesn't cover pandemics, so no one is going to want to risk losing their vacation money, now that they know that it's actually possible that Disney will completely close their resorts.

Absolutely. The blaming sentence wasn’t directed at anyone...just part of my thoughts.

I agree, This is going to turn a lot of people away because unless you have CFAR insurance...which I understand is more expensive...you go in now knowing even if the resort is closed, you lose out.

In order for someone to take that risk, I think the rental price as to be substantially cheaper than direct. Give the prices being charged currently for rentals it may not be worth it,

At least with Disney, you not only do you get refunded, you can change dates, etc.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I don't blame anyone. I was responding to the PP, who expressed anger towards renters & the DVC agencies because the PP feels that renting points makes units harder to get. So I pointed out that owners & Disney were equally to blame for the fact that points get rented.

This situation is going to scare a lot of people away from point rental, and rightly so. Insurance doesn't cover pandemics, so no one is going to want to risk losing their vacation money, now that they know that it's actually possible that Disney will completely close their resorts.

My insurance does cover pandemics, so financially we're fine, but we are unlikely to rent at this point again unless owners get desperate and prices plummet. Price difference is not as big as it once was in some cases even without the (IMO inevitable) discounts and lack of increases we'll be seeing from Disney.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

I agree, This is going to turn a lot of people away because unless you have CFAR insurance...

An upthread PP already reported that her CFAR insurance claim was rejected because of the pandemic, so that isn't the answer. Insurance can't be counted on in this type of situation.

This is why everyone else (resorts, airlines, hotels), are waiving non-refundable/non-changeable agreements and either giving refunds or allowing changes. Because that's what a business with any amount of customer service & care for its own reputation will do in this unforseeable & never before experienced situation. The problem with renting points is that the money goes to an individual, not a business, and that individual doesn't care about customer service or reputation. They just want to keep the money they got from the renter. So that causes the customer to lose out or have to persue other channels (credit card company or attorney) toward getting the money back.

 

[Sandisw]

An upthread PP already reported that her CFAR insurance didn't work because of the pandemic, so that isn't the answer. Insurance isn't good for this type of situation, period.

This is why everyone else (resorts, airlines, hotels), are waiving non-refundable/non-changeable agreements and either giving refunds or allowing changes. Because that's what a business with any amount of customer service & care for its own reputation will do in this unforseeable & never before experienced situation. The problem with renting points is that the money goes to an individual, not a business, and that individual doesn't care about customer service or reputation. They just want to keep their money. So that causes the customer to lose out or have to persue other channels (credit card company or attorney) toward getting the money back.

Wow, People have been posting that this type of insurance should have been gotten because it would have worked, If it doesn’t, then that really is a game changer,

I know as an owner, I am not sure I can recommend it any more.

 

[lovethesun12]

Wow, People have been posting that this type of insurance should have been gotten because it would have worked, If it doesn’t, then that really is a game changer,

I know as an owner, I am not sure I can recommend it any more.

This is why someone that did *not* buy that *specific* insurance is not necessarily going around making all kinds of bad decisions (never considered myself much of a rebel) and against buying insurance and it doesn't make sense in hindsight to say "you should have bought that" when it might not have been the best option.

If before this all happened, there was a thread on insurance and someone said "you should purchase the PPP" I would have said "No, I read the fine print and this would only allow cancellations prior to 3 days and heavy fees prior to 29 days so I purchased trip cancellation from my employer for cheaper that covers up until the day of the trip start date".

I highly doubt anyone would have countered with "well hey your insurance does not cover pandemics and the PPP does". At the time I looked at when the insurance would be paid out and how much. I did not consider pandemics, zombie apocalypse, that sort of thing.

At this point I just have empathy for everyone (members, renters, people at rental companies) because very few would have predicted this other than epidemiologists and the people that know everything. At this point there is no reason to get angry at one person or another. I will try to work with them to reschedule and hope they will try to do that as well since Disney has made that possible to an extent if you are flexible.

I really feel like the approach to everything that is going on that will help everything is a team approach. This even applies to what is going on in grocery stores/etc as well. This is possibly going to get stressful for a lot of people. I'm really just hoping everyone is being nice to the very sweet person I rented from and all the other nice people in these industries. They didn't ask for this. Sounds cliche but we really are all in this together.

 

[Thumper99]

OMG. Edited because clearly I’m unable to figure this out! Sorry for the original post showing multiple quotes.

I'm not sure how it came across that way? How is changing a reservation for the person that rented from you a loss if they have that option? I guess you mean their time? I specifically I said "I have no plans to recover losses if a change in reservation is not possible" so not sure how you took from that that I think the owner and broker should take the loss and leave me whole when I literally said exactly that I would take the entire loss?

I apologize lovethesun12! I was confused you with another post! So sorry! I do hope you are able to work our your situation and get to have your vacation.

 

[Thumper99]

An upthread PP already reported that her CFAR insurance claim was rejected because of the pandemic, so that isn't the answer. Insurance can't be counted on in this type of situation.

This is why everyone else (resorts, airlines, hotels), are waiving non-refundable/non-changeable agreements and either giving refunds or allowing changes. Because that's what a business with any amount of customer service & care for its own reputation will do in this unforseeable & never before experienced situation. The problem with renting points is that the money goes to an individual, not a business, and that individual doesn't care about customer service or reputation. They just want to keep the money they got from the renter. So that causes the customer to lose out or have to persue other channels (credit card company or attorney) toward getting the money back.

Wow. Laying this at the feet of the meanie owner huh? Maybe if you want to stay at a DVC resort next time you can plunk down 30k+ for that like the owner did. I would hope every owner who rented would try to help accommodate their renter. But If they can’t and they lose their points why should they take the loss. Most likely they have spent that money and would have to take money needed now for themselves. They did not cancel the reservation. DVC did. I say go after DVC and then maybe THEN DVC will put a stop to the rampant renting business.
For the record I am an owner and I have rented to family and friends. I see no problem with that but the relatively new rental agencies have created this type of mass rentals. I did not buy DVC to rent to make a profit but there are many people who did. I was never told by my DVC rep that I would be competing for availability with a rental agency making a profit with my fellow owners for profit.

 

[Thumper99]

Why do you blane the rental companies and the renters, but not also the owners who choose to rent out? And why not also blame Disney, since they're the ones who allow it and the only ones who could stop the practice?

I agree that it probably would be a good idea to disallow the rental of points, because of potential catastrophes like this. And I see why owners would not want other owners renting out their points, too.

Ultimately, only Disney can put a stop to that, though. I doubt they will, as the ability to rent points is probably a selling point for many prospective DVC buyers.

oh I do blame the owners! I have a friend who bought DVC just to rent it out and make a profit over her maintenance fees. She would not have done that had she not had a rental agency that made it very easy for her to do that.
I agree about it being DVCs responsibility to curb this. When I spoke to a DVC rep on a recent cruise he said that DVC is very aware of the problem and looking into some solutions and encouraged owners to send complaints. I also never heard in their presentation on the ship the word “rent” and certainly never in my one on one sales presentation. Again I have no problem with a owner renting or gifting their points. But the rental agencies that have made this a business have greatly increased the rental business because they are now hooking up renters who’ve been told this is a great way to go deluxe cheap. This has put a strain on availability. I truly am sorry for all renters and owners right now. I hope resolutions can be made in some way. It sucks for all I’m sure.

 

[Thumper99]

Allowing guests and renters to stay on our points is part of the DVC contract. The only exception is commercial rentals and DVC looks at memberships and I’d they see too many reservations in others names, they look closer.

I have no problem whatsoever with an owner choosing to book a room and allow someone else to stay in it. They spend a good deal of money to buy the contract and they have every right to that room, no more than any other owner,

This entire situation is because no one, owners, rentals, or brokers really thought about the fact that a resort closure of this nature would ever happen.

So, there really is no one to blame and all just have to try to work out the best they can.

THIS situation is because Disney shut their resorts.

But the availability situation is complicated by the rental agencies don’t you think? Already competing with owners for WDW resorts who don’t own at the WDW such as VB or HH or Aulani. But now we’re competing with people who didn’t even put a dime down to being an owner. Yes I understand the owner who owns is renting the unit but the system was supposed to work with OWNERs who want to stay at Disney competing at various times. Not competing with owners who are trying to get non owners in to Christmas week. I just think it’s unfair to have rental agencies “hooking up” people and making a profit.

And can anyone define “ commercial renting”? I’ve always seen that but I don’t understand the term.

 

[MICKIMINI]

An upthread PP already reported that her CFAR insurance claim was rejected because of the pandemic, so that isn't the answer. Insurance can't be counted on in this type of situation.

This is why everyone else (resorts, airlines, hotels), are waiving non-refundable/non-changeable agreements and either giving refunds or allowing changes. Because that's what a business with any amount of customer service & care for its own reputation will do in this unforseeable & never before experienced situation. The problem with renting points is that the money goes to an individual, not a business, and that individual doesn't care about customer service or reputation. They just want to keep the money they got from the renter. So that causes the customer to lose out or have to persue other channels (credit card company or attorney) toward getting the money back.

With all due respect, those individuals being vilified are everyday people who chose to buy DVC for their own personal use. They are friends and neighbors, not some bogeyman on the internet. They didn't buy to rent and are certainly not a business either big or small.

We are honest, caring people. Last summer I had a family (renters)due to arrive during a hurricane and I reached out to the broker to check on them. I didn't have lots of options but wanted to attempt to help within the parameters of my DVC contract. They checked in and all was okay. I had no obligation to so, but like most DVC owners, we're actually nice people. Though caught off-guard most owners have made an honest attempt to help renters during this unprecedented crisis within their contracts - it is not as simple as it sounds and certainly not like a hotel reservation.

I don't know if you are an owner or understand that DVC is real estate and the rental industry sprung up because renters wanted access to cheap DVC stays. We did not create this rental industry, the rental industry came after owners to make a profit from unused/excess points. Many owners like me will likely withdraw from the rental market leaving consumers less choices and more much more expensive Disney stays. Be well.

 

[Lynne M]

Guys, we are getting way off track. Debates on the ethics of renting do not belong on this board, and arguing and name-calling don't belong anywhere.

Let's please get back to sharing useful information:

Have you heard from your rental agency and gotten information on how cancellations are being handled? Please share it here.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Guys, we are getting way off track. Debates on the ethics of renting do not belong on this board, and arguing and name-calling don't belong anywhere.

Let's please get back to sharing useful information:

Have you heard from your rental agency and gotten information on how cancellations are being handled? Please share it here.

Our owner cancelled our reservation and according to the agency they will be re-renting those points out, so I can only assume they’re usable points, and once that is done we’ll get our money back.

We do have insurance, but are required to attempt to get money back through our agency first.